Do you think it is possible to get people to commit acts that they wouldn't otherwise commit?

I do.

M.K. Ultra caused people to jump out of windows and commit suicide.

You said there are a lot of shrinks at CIA.

I used those shrinks on operations.

We even hypnotized one guy.

He was hypnotized with his arm in the air for two hours.

Would you describe the CIA as an intelligence gathering agency? Not anymore. It used to be until 9-11.

And then it became a paramilitary organization. What they would rather do is fancy high-tech

satellites and drones and they're not really in the business anymore of

recruiting spies to steal secrets. I got a call from a Japanese diplomat and he said,

hey, let's have lunch. I said, great. He said to me, so what's next for you? And I said,

I think I'm going to resign soon. And he says, no, if you give me information, I can give you money.

He was an FBI agent.

What?

Trying to get me to commit actual espionage.

The FBI did that to you?

We've got to burn the government down, actually.

I mean, your only crime was an ABC interview in which you say, yes, the CIA does have a

torture program.

I know because I worked there and the president authorized it and lied about it in public.

That's your sum total of your crimes.

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