Joel Mokyr on Clans, Corporations, and a Culture of Growth
Conversations with Tyler
Conversations with Tyler
4.8 • 2.6K Ratings
🗓️ 8 July 2026
⏱️ 46 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Joel Mokyr co-won the 2025 economics Nobel for exploring the question that traces back to the beginning of economics: how did sustained economic growth suddenly become normal? For nearly all of human history, cleverness didn't compound. What changed, according to Mokyr, was twofold: first, you need to know why something works, so that one advance can seed the next; second, you need a culture willing to tolerate the disruption. His new book contrasts Europe with China, showing how Europeans learned to cooperate with people they weren't related to, in guilds, monasteries, cities, and universities, while China organized itself around the extended clan. One path led to internal stability and peace; the other, more restless and outward-looking, was the one that decided the world could always be made better.
Tyler and Joel discuss European corporations vs. Chinese clans, why the Catholic Church became obsessed with cousin-marriage, how persistent cultural trends really are, why Chinese cities became so populous relative to Europe, why it took so long for European living standards to surpass China's, why sinified invaders kept getting swallowed by the dynasties they conquered, how geography kept Europe fragmented and China unified, where India fits into the story, why the Romans never made spectacles, why British soldiers stood two inches taller than the French, what powered the sudden rise of 19th-century German science, how disruptive winning a Nobel is, and much more.
Read a full transcript enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel.
Recorded February 20th, 2026.
This episode was made possible through the support of the John Templeton Foundation.
Other ways to connect
- Follow us on X and Instagram
- Follow Tyler on X
- Sign up for our newsletter
- Join our Discord
- Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu
- Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here.
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:54 - Europe vs. China's Paths to Prosperity
00:10:22 - China's Growth
00:13:24 - Europe's Growth
00:18:56 - The Fall of Song China
00:21:56 - India
00:25:08 - Industrial Revolution
00:39:52 - 19th-Century German Science
00:43:37 - Being a Nobel Laureate
00:45:29 - Outro
Photo Credit: Shane Collins
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Conversations with Tyler is produced by the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, |
| 0:09.4 | bridging the gap between academic ideas and real-world problems. |
| 0:13.5 | Learn more at Mercadis.org. |
| 0:15.7 | For a full transcript of every conversation enhanced with helpful links, |
| 0:20.4 | visit Conversationswithtyler.com. |
| 0:26.1 | Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Conversations with Tyler. |
| 0:30.1 | Today I'm chatting with Joel Mokier. |
| 0:32.6 | Joel is a professor at Northwestern University. |
| 0:36.1 | He has a wonderful new book out called Two Paths to Prosperity, |
| 0:40.9 | Culture and Institutions in Europe and China, 1000 to 2000, and he is one of the Economics Nobel |
| 0:49.2 | laureates from this past year. Joe, welcome. |
| 0:53.2 | Thank you, Tyler. Start by telling us in the book, |
| 0:56.3 | your thesis is about European corporations versus Chinese clans and the importance of that difference. |
| 1:03.6 | How would you explain it? Well, the difference is basically the kind of organizations that produce what we call local public goods. |
| 1:14.4 | So things like poor relief and education, religious service and things like that. |
| 1:19.2 | I would think that if you look at the world, say, around 800 at the time of Charlemagne, |
| 1:25.9 | the difference between Europe and China isn't very large. |
| 1:29.7 | But at some point, during the Middle Ages, you can see this divergence getting started. |
| 1:35.3 | And what's happening is that in Europe, there is more and more of a decline in the extended family |
| 1:44.0 | or the extended kinship group or we call it clan. |
| 1:49.4 | And instead, people get together and cooperate with other people to whom they are not related |
| 1:56.5 | and with whom they do not share an ancestor. |
... |
Transcript will be available on the free plan in 20 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Conversations with Tyler, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Conversations with Tyler and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.