Hey, thanks for showing up.

I'm Lisa Whittle and welcome to the Jesus Over Everything show, affectionately known as Joe,

where this season it's all about truth telling, finding the good, and showing up for our lives today no matter what has happened, even yesterday.

There are certain people I have incredible respect

for as a writer, but also a person. Dr. Alicia Brett Cole fits into that space. Her writing is not

only deep and thorough, thoughtful, and full of Jesus. She was on my short list of people I've

been wanting to talk to for a long time, and when I actually got to do it, it was a better conversation than I even hoped.

You will be deeply and profoundly moved by this conversation.

You're going to walk away with at least one thing you won't soon forget.

We talked out, deconstructionism, habits of a truly healthy soul, women leading and teaching, and how we trust the

church again after spiritual authority and abuse. This was full of the tough conversations the church

needs to be having. And I'm so honored. I got to have so many of them with the tender, brilliant,

and deeply in love with Jesus, Dr. Alicia Brent Cole.

So I want you to know I come into this conversation with really deep admiration for you.

I was going to say that I'm a fan, but I honestly feel like

that waters down the way. I actually feel about your work and such. I don't love the word fan.

So I was trying to remember the first book of yours I read. It may have been anonymous,

but I feel like there was maybe one before that. Your books are so

intentional. They're so deep and important. How do you choose the books you write? What is your

process or is it like me where I feel like they almost choose me?

That's probably a little bit closer for me too, Lisa. I like in writing to dancing, like a dance with God. It's like the music begins

and he leads and I follow and writing for me is this beautiful devotional experience. So I wait

...