Welcome to the Bold Work Podcast. I'm Charlie Sex. I have been looking forward to this

podcast for a very very long time two very

very special guests. Joe Klein longtime journalist author of seven books including

primary colors now writes sanity clause on subject including Primary Colors, Now Rights, Sanity Clause on Substack,

and co-host a new political podcast, Night Owl,

and his partner, John Ellis.

The other co-host of Night Owl's,

Ellis is a veteran journalist as well,

was covered politics at NBC, the Boston Globe, Fox News, other outlets.

He writes two newsletters on sub-stack, news items and political items.

Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast. News items and political items.

Gentlemen, welcome to the podcast.

Good to be here, Charlie.

Thank you very much for having us.

I have a slightly embarrassing story, Joe.

I started reading your newsletter and I was sitting

around I was actually reading a passage to my wife and she says, is that V. Joe Klein?

And I had to say say I have to check. But it was the Joe Klein and it is actually

to one of my guilty pleasures I have to say I really enjoy the sub-stack? I really enjoy your newsletter every week.

And vice versa Charlie, you do it every day and you've been having a lot of fun with it recently.

I think that you're moving into the fun period of your career because things are so absurd out there.

There is that to say, but you're going to hear the word hamster wheel of crazy and they need to get off the hamster

...