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without commercial interruption, please subscribe and listen at deep dives with Monica Perez on your favorite podcasting platform. We are joined once again by Jeremy Kuzmuroh, managing editor of Covert Action magazine, who's here to talk about one of his more recent articles

exposing the Ukraine version of Operation Phoenix that's now underway. I'm Monica Perez, gonna strap on a second tank for Jeremy and going deep with today's dive master.

Hey Jeremy, thanks so much for being here.

Hi, thanks for having me again.

My pleasure.

This article that you wrote, I'm going to just read the headline of it from your online magazine covert action,

CIA behind secret plots to kidnap, torture, and assassinate Ukrainian dissidents for President

Zelensky,

says Ukraine Defector.

Now that's a really bold statement.

And as I went through and read this article,

I mean, it was just hard hitting

with many examples and naming names and my guess is there's

actually a lot more to it than you could even cover in this article and I have

some I just was hoping we could go through some of the bigger

picture items here and you know if you want to give an overview of kind of where this came

from and then I want to ask you some specifics.

Sure, well, I mean, I think, you know, the Ukrainian officials are actually pretty brazen,

like if you read some of their, you know, Facebook or Twitter or are actually

openly bragging about this stuff.

They're actually openly bragging about this stuff.

...