Hello and welcome to not another one, the podcast with me, Steve Richards, Tim Montgomery, Ian Martin, Miranda Green,

and we're all in different places because we're all very busy,

unsurprisingly, in the light of the drama at the end of the week with Robert Jenrick's

defection to reform. And we are going to explore what that means. But before we analyze it or discuss it or disagree over what it means,

Tim, you were very involved in this. So, and it's been having, it's been reported,

so I'm not revealing anything that hasn't been reported, but you can give us more information now.

You've been having, indeed you tweeted about it. You've been having many conversations with Robert Jenrick about this,

and from the reform perspective, probably instigated this whole sequence. So tell us what you can

about what happened. Well, that's right, Steve.

And I want to be careful what I say,

because a lot of the conversations I had with Robert Generic

over the last four months are private.

And he's even up until the last few days,

I wasn't sure whether he would make the leap.

But I talked about the fact that these

conversations began four months ago, because the timing of that were really important. So four

months ago, people will realise that was before the Tory conference. And he began talking to me about

the possibility of coming over to reform.

And I think that message, because you'll all remember,

that was when Klemie Bidnott was going into a conference

where it was sort of make or break for her.

People were talking about her leadership possibly ending.

...