Now it's the Michelle Tofoya podcast.

Jenny Holland, it's great to have you.

I am a fan of your work and it's interesting.

You're living over there in Ireland with your son.

You're an American also.

Yeah.

I'm guessing you have dual citizenship, yeah?

I do.

I do.

So,

yeah, it is.

And your perspective is really interesting.

And the stuff you write, it's, it, it demonstrates that.

All right.

So let me read a couple of lines at the beginning of your piece in praise of ordinary men.

You said a few weeks ago, I was scrolling mindlessly on Instagram, my number one favorite

way to relax, when I came upon the following quote.

Duboisier told us the reason women can't see our oppression is because unlike other minority groups,

we live lives entirely entwined with our oppressors and it all seems normal.

I save the post because it is such a perfect summation of why I am not, nor ever really have been a feminist.

Explain that. What do you mean?

I think feminism appeals to young women in particular because

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