I'm Scott Tattro. There is so much political news to follow these days, but you don't have

to keep up with all of it, you just have to keep up with us on the NPR Politics podcast.

You can find us on the NPR One app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey y'all, it's been a minute for NPR. I'm Sam Sanders. Every week we try to bring you a

media in-depth conversation with one person or on one topic. This week our person is Jennifer

Palmeri, Communications Director for Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. She was also

President Obama's Communications Director and she worked in the Bill Clinton White House back

on the 90s. She has been in the politics business for decades. She has a new book out called

Dear Madam President, an open letter to the women who will run the world. It is full of advice

for women in politics and women in the workplace, but the book is also this really in-depth look

back on the Hillary Clinton campaign. From the inside, Jen perhaps knows Hillary more than just

about any of us do, and she has some really, really interesting takes on what went wrong and what

went right for Hillary in 2016. In this conversation we get to a lot. We talk about how Jen herself

survived the craziness of 2016. We talk about how she dealt with illness and her family

while also helping to run a presidential campaign. We talk about why Jen has an entire chapter

in her book, all about why she thinks that men and women and everybody should cry at work.

All right, here's my conversation with Jennifer Palmeri. Enjoy.

So I was thinking this morning about you because I couldn't sleep last night for lots of reasons,

and I was grumpy and like, oh, I had a night of not great sleep. And then I said to myself,

well, my guest today probably had like two years of not sleeping. Being on the grind and working

on a campaign for president, what did you average a night in terms of hours of sleep?

I'd say like four and then probably, you know, actual sleeping was less.

...