Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show with your host, Eric Metaxus.

Folks, welcome to Hour 2.

I have the great joy of continuing my conversation with my guest from hour one,

John Perkins. He has a book out called Count it All Joy, the ridiculous paradox of suffering.

And John, as a black man, you have suffered tremendously in your life. You're describing to us

growing up raised by grandparents who were sharecroppers, hard for anybody to imagine

in this day and age, that your mother died of malnutrition when you were a baby, your father

was an absentee father. You had a brother killed by the cops. I mean, it's amazing. In 1947, the sort of thing that you hear about, but you were there when this happened.

And you now have experienced the civil rights era in America.

You led voter registration efforts and worked for school desegregation.

You were beaten in 1970, and yet you still have a tremendous joy and a hope,

and you reject the negative, ultimately, racial message of the BLM movement.

And I think it's important for us to hear from somebody who has experienced actual

racism and persecution for the color of his skin and to see that you come out at a

different place than many do today, including many in the so-called evangelical church.

Yeah, we are in trouble.

That's what we are in trouble at.

And you can almost say that someone, what you're saying today, got roots there, and we're still not understanding that in the image of God created him.

And he came on a mission to forgive us for our sin, to have our sin forgiven.

And that's why you got to read, I call it the ridiculous paradox of something,

because that's our redemption.

That's love love lived out.

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