From away to garden.com and Robinhood Radio.com, this is Away to Garden with Margaret Roach. You're a weekly invitation to dig in and grow. In recent growing seasons, the new normal of a changing climate has sometimes been making me feel like my northeastern garden has relocated farther to the south. So maybe that's part of what caught my attention when I saw news of a new book called

Secrets of Southern Gardening Pro Tips for Success that was just published by today's guest

Horticulturist, Nurse Ruin, and Garden Designer, Janks Farmer.

He's here to share some of those tips on smarter planting, especially of trees and watering

how-tos and more. Many of them applicable for wherever you garden, so more in a moment but first these messages. Underwriting support for a way to garden provided by Colorblends wholesale flower bulbs. A third-generation bulb company offering top-sized flower bulbs directly to landscape professionals and ambitious residential gardeners on the web, Colorblends.com. And by High Mohing Seeds, Wolcott Vermont, Professional Quality Vegetable, Flower, and Urbal Seeds that are 100% organic and non-GMO project verified. On the web, HighMohingSeeds.com. And by Whiteflower Farm, offering a wide range of carefully selected and expertly grown garden plants. On the web, WhiteflowerFarm.com Augustus Jenkins Farmer, aka Jenks Farmer, is a long-time horticulturist and garden designer and the former director of Riverbank's Botanical Garden in South Carolina, an author of several garden books, including most recently, Secrets of Southern

Gardening. True to his surname, he is also a farmer, specializing in growing and selling crime and lilies and a few other goodies from his organically managed 18th century South Carolina farm. I'm so glad to welcome him back to the show today. Hi, Jenks. How are you? Hey, Margaret. I'm great. It's hot down here. Well, yeah, I'm in my Southern garden too, as I said.

Right.

It's not hot here at the moment, but there are many times this summer that I thought, oh my goodness, what the heck's going on. And it's funny because chapter one of your book, I think, is called our crazy Southern climate. And I thought, yeah, our crazy climate everywhere, huh? But yes. So before we talk about your crazy Southern climate, And I'll say we'll have a book giveaway with the transcript of the show over on WayToGarden.com. But yeah, your crazy Southern climate. What is, how is it nuts? What's crazy about it? Well, even in normal times before things got really crazy, I say we have six seasons because we have a really long fall. So for us, I think it's very confusing when people move down here from the north and they expect fall to happen like in September and October. We don't even get a frost until about Thanksgiving. So that gives us basically two growing seasons in the summer. We can start in April, plant, you know, things that people plant for squash and zineas and all the easy annuals. But those kind of things peter out. So for August, September and October, we have a whole new summer. So we have a crime lilies are coming into flower in the vegetable garden, Okra, and you know, we harvested like nine pounds of eggplant yesterday. Oh my. So we have those that sort of two separate summer seasons?

Yeah. And then for us, winter can be just outrageously variable. So we can go from 70 degrees on New Year's Day to 13 degrees that night. And it's always been that way in our climate. And that's very hard on plants. But I think the key for people who are moving here, or even people who are thinking about visiting, is remembering how variable it is and that we can have absolutely spectacular beautiful days in February and again in September but then like you know tomorrow it's going to be 95. And where are you what city where are you exactly located? What's the name of it? It's near Augusta, Georgia. So, no, exactly where that is. Okay. But it's a little town called Beach Island. There is no beach and there is no island here. But we're in South Carolina along the Savannah River, not too far up from Savannah. Okay. So speaking of funny names, I like that you have a beach island with no beach in no island, reading as a Northern Gardener in the new book. I love noticing some of the regional differences, you know, not just in plant choices or the timing of when you do what and so forth and how you do things, but also the common names that we use in different regions and other vocabulary choices like a wonderful native more to Southern, not where I am, but more southerly the Kainanthus Virginicus that I can grow to though. I call it the French tree and you call it... Granddaddy Graveyard. Granddaddy Graveyard, I love it.

I love it. It's like I never heard that. I was like, I was so delighted by these kinds of things. And it's just one of the many southeastern natives that's hardy up north too and has been marketed as a garden plant like Oxey Dendrum, in the Sauerwood and in Bottlebrush Baka, I mean, a couple of species of father, Gilla, you know,

they're, we think of them as. I mean, a couple of species of father, Gila,

you know, they're, we think of them as southeastern natives, but they're hardy up here and they're popular garden plants in a lot of the country and maybe they were native up here too before the last glaciers, right? Who knows? Right, oh yeah, you know, that's such a, It's such a crazy question with nativity because things move and they have and and then a lot of times what we think of as native was only based on what European travelers wrote about when they got here and what they saw. So maybe they didn't see the Kion app this. It was growing on the shore of New Jersey. Yeah, or or and now they'd use the fossil records of course as well. So there were some more, you know Compared to back then, but yeah, it's it's it's but it's really interesting that we have a lot of overlap in plants even though You know, we're far apart and and our climates are supposedly so different. So it's full planting time in a lot of places and and there's this section in the book about planting especially trees and and other what do you think I think and a lot of your advice and and after all I mean the book is called Secrets of Southern Gardening Pro Tips for Success and there were so many pro tips, so many things that reminded me of when I've violated them, how it went wrong you know and the things that we really need to remember. And I just love your way of explaining the why and the how of, you know, you buy a tree in a nursery pod or a ball in burlaped and so forth and figuring out like what level it should, how deep it should go and how to get it ready to be in the hole in the ground

that you're going to make for it, and how to aftercare it, water it. I just thought, for instance, that was one of the really great lessons, and it might seem basic to people, but I think a lot of people just take it out of the pot and put it in a hole, the same level it was at in the nursery pot, and that's not always a good idea, is it? So I'm a nursery man and I grew mostly in the ground, but I have some things in containers.

And the goal in the nursery is to have a potting media that makes that plant look great in the nursery, right? Because growing in a pot with constant irrigation, with wind is a whole different thing from growing in the ground. So my potting media and not just me, but any nurseries potting media is about our success so that we can sell that plant. It's not about success and transplanting, right? And a lot of big nurseries, especially, we're looking for ways to save money. So they're incorporating waste materials into their potting mix. So a lot of bark gets mixed in now. Down here, peanut shells gets mixed in. Those things are fine for the nursery, but they're super dry. So anytime that I'm planting, I do landscape planting, you know, design work. If I can, I saturate those plants, even the big ones. I'll take on a job, five or six baby pools, and fill those pools up and try to let those plants soak overnight because it can be so difficult to get that potting mix wet. Then the next thing I do is when I take that out, I beat off a lot of that potting mix and take away. I want, especially for woody plants, I almost bear root them and put them back in the ground. Now I'll mix in some of that bark. I'm not saying it's terrible stuff, but for root contact with your soil, the best thing to do is to get rid of a bunch of that. Right. And the other thing is the depth. There was one picture in the book, showing I think a tree that had just had just gotten planted or just had just come out of it, certainly pot. And I mean, it was so at the wrong level. And yes, you point out in the book, you couldn't see the root flare, the where the the trunk meets the upper most roots. And they sort of do flare, gradually outward to begin that, you know, the root zone. And it was like bark was buried. And that's off in the case, you know, it's not ideal. That particular tree, that was one I bought for myself, not for a client, and I splurged on this little two-gallon tree from a very good connoisseurs nursery, but when I got home I realized that it was two inches too deep. Yes. Two inches of that soil on the top of that pot. I had to cut it off with a handsaw. And this is not uncommon. Again, I'm saying this is from a good nursery, right? A lot of our plants come from box stores and nurseries that are really big and they're even worse. So that top layer can inhibit the plant growth first because the bark that's inside that layer is subject to rot and therefore subject to lots of pests. Yes, and it can stay like moist and get, you know, like a rot almost like. Yeah, fun. Right. fungus and And then on a larger scale, because we do some big tree planting, right, with tree spades where we're planting like 10-inch trees, those trees often have the same thing, the same problem, but that soil on a bigger tree will actually inhibit the growth of that trunk below ground.

So you end up with this sort of narrow trunk that's below ground, this little spot that's restricted. And then you slowly get a bigger trunk growing, bigger girth above ground, but you always have that weak spot. for us, for a cane that's terrible, because that tree's got a built in place to snap. Right, and even without a hurricane, right, in proper depth especially too deep, can be a killer. It sort of almost suffocates the plant, doesn't it count it potentially? I mean, yeah, definitely.. I just see this over and over. And that's one reason I, one way I wrote this book was from the perspective that a homeowner who may not be planting their 30 gallon plants, they might have in a landscaper to do it, but they need to know this. So when they're out there watching their landscaper work, they're making sure it's done right because that's ultimately it's your responsibility if you're hiring somebody to do it. You know, it's like, you know, with me hiring a doctor, I also pay attention to what and read up about the issues so that I have some idea that what that doctor is saying is is making sense. Is that yeah? Yeah. Yeah and then the other thing that you you point out in the book which I never see anybody except long-time horticulturists with old style training do like us. But it is so essential. I see people make that hole, get the plant in the hole, pack it with the soil, get it all tamped down and then try to water it. Right. And that's a best case that they try to water it. And it's like, what?

Right. And that's the best case that they try to water it. A lot of times you'll see like a company say, Oh, we're going to turn on the irrigation. Well, that's hopeless to irrigate like big extensive new plantings and stuff like that. It's not going to do the job in that, you know, for all those transplants for sure. So we were planting this morning, some 30 gallon magnolias, and I took a little video of us mudding it in. I don't know if you can embed a video. Yeah, I can. And you say, it was so funny because you used, in the book, you explain this technique, mudding it in, which I call puddling it in. I don't know who told me to call it that a million years ago, whatever. But it was the same technique. And I thought, I'm the only person I know, you know, when I'm with people where I live and stuff's being planted, I'm the only person I know who does this. Man, I'll tell you this is something I struggle with my guys and all the time. When we're planting on a job, I want that hose running all day long. Because every plant, and we're just moving it, we do that mudding in where we're jamming the hose down in the ground. Before we've, again, totally fully backfilled and tamped and made everything look perfect, right?

Like we're doing it. So tell us, tell us just, I wish you back, Trudton said, what is mudding in or pulling in? Okay, so you dig your hole, you put your plant in there that you've knocked a lot of soil off of. Yeah. And that you have your water running the whole time that you're backfilling. Yeah. that is that no matter what no matter what you do, there are always gonna be air pockets that you can't see and can't tamp in. Yeah. But that water running creates like little mudslides and it fills in all those spots. Yeah, so you muddle, I puddle. And so I love doing that.

And I've loved doing that since I was a kid. I remember every time I do it, I remember when I was a kid, like, punching that hose down in the ground and making little tunnels. Yeah. Because these plants only have one chance to get a good start in our soil. Don't they? I mean, do you know what I mean? It's really, this is not a time to skimp

or to stress them out further. It's enough already. Absolutely, absolutely. As planting is enough, even if it's stressed, even if it's done correctly, it's a stressor. So we want to give them the best possible. Absolutely. And I, you know, people, my, you know, Design clients will ask me sometimes do you care into your plans? I'm like no these plants are like puppies

I'm gonna, I'm designed clients will ask me sometimes do you care into your plans? I'm like, no, these plants are like puppies. I'm going to plan them right. And if they're planted right, they're going to thrive. No, and I have no doubt of that. It's aftercare is important, but that first 20 minutes is critical. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of also related to giving things a good start is, and again, that you have in the book, is deciding where they can be placed sort of in the microclimates or the different areas of one's landscape, you know, one's garden, one's home garden. And you make the important point that I think a lot of us don't think about. We all, as gardeners, I think, think about, is it a sun plant or a shade plant? But we don't think about soil moisture as much, right? And so we're grouping for light a lot of times, but that's not the whole story, is it? No, and especially with us, because we can go from red heavy clay to literally a hundred feet away can be like white sand. And you just, you know, those are totally different plants. It required, I mean, totally different soils and drainages and different plants thrive in those different soils. Yeah. You know, you mentioned microclimate. You're probably going to think this is funny, but I was looking at a place the other day and it was like a north facing wall and it's a little heavy clay and so it's shady all the time it doesn't get any winter sun and I thought hmm maybe I can plant some anemones there because for me that's a cold microclimate that I might be able to make some anemones and some more northern plants thrive. Right. That wouldn't just bake and soak because of the heat. Yeah, but I think generally when people think of microclimates, they think of how can a fitness. More, more, more, more. Right. Well, that's a good point also, because like I remember a million years ago, when I wanted to have this for a magnolia, and when I was first making the garden, I wanted to have this a magnolia and when I was first making the garden I wanted to have a magnolia, an early blooming magnolia, but a different one and I asked the best local nurse human and he said, well here's one and then he named you know he pointed one out to me he said this one will get, the flowers will never get ruined by a late frost. If you plant it like the kind of spot you're just talking about more in the Easter, the northern side of your house, like somewhere where it's not going to be toasted all the time, where it's going to wake up later, not wake up early. So and he was right, I've had the thing 30 years or something and you know, ballerine nets called one of those Lebner or Lohbner, I don't know how you pronounce the man's name, who developed them, the series. And he was absolutely right. looking for the microclimate that would delay its awakening. Those buds becoming vulnerable. Right. Yeah. And I just see, there's an example of when you're a much better gardener than I am. Because I was just, I'm just accepted that those magnolias always have a brown period and I've taught myself that it might as well call it pretty. They are beautiful creatures though aren't they? So, you know, I was really drawn that that whole chapter that involves watering it and the book is called Mindful and Efficient Watering. I loved it. It sounded very Buddhist, you know, Because, growing up as a northeastern gardener, we used to have that old proverbial inch of rain a week kind of thing. Used to be more regular and more. It's not the case anymore. So I'm not as expert at watering. And you had one, this one tip, about a five gallon bucket with a hole in it. Tell us about that. Yeah, so that's a real redneck way to do it. But I loved it. I loved it. It's great. Works. We do that a lot. You know, you can buy these some these tree bags that are basically a big water balloon with a slow drip on them. But those things are super expensive. And we just take a five gallon bucket and put a nail hole in the bottom and fill it up, you know, once or twice a week and let it slowly drip. And then the other tip, I guess this is what makes it really pro, is that we put a red spray paint mark on all those buckets, because you sure as hell don't want to pick up that bucket and fill it up with water to carry it to water something. And have it squirt and water out on your sock and the whole thing. Right. Right. But, but so you're placing this bucket with this little hole in it. You're placing it near specimens that need that extra help during tough times or whatever. So they're going to get this extra water. I forget what those vessels are called. Those clay vessels. What are those? Oh, I forget what they're called. Anyway, there are, you know, there are special, there are traditional vessels like that that are fancy that do this.

O-O-L-L-A is at, oh, oh, oh, L.A. Is that the world word? Oh, oh, oh, oh Yeah, anyway, I can't remember that word but I'm not sure No mean either and But but you know exactly so the point being however we do it we have to be attentive um, mindful, as you say, about watering and especially plants are getting acclimated. All different plants need different needs. And that's a technique that we use mainly on new plants, but in a drought summer, and we've been really lucky for the past three or four years. three or four years we've had very wet summers. September October is always

very dry. There are times that certain plants suggest need that little bit of water to thrive. Right. So in the last three or four minutes or something, we have something else to and common besides modeling and modeling.

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