I am thrilled to today's guest Jeffrey Tuben. It's kind of a household household name he's probably one of the great

chroniclers of the great legal criminal happenings of our time whether he's written is a

10 or 11 books I know this is that we're going to

just 9 okay just 9 I'm trying to push you forward it's written books that have

turned it to TV series everything for Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton to Patty Hurst to

O.J Simpson. His newest book, Homegrown Timothy McVeigh and the Rise of

Right When Extremism is a must read. He's an Emmy winner he spent 27 years at the

New Yorker a ton of years at CNN brilliant legal mind brilliant legal analysts

thanks for being here sir Donnie thanks for having me. Great to be with you.

Great, you know, this book, I'll just read the scariest quote from the book that consequently

McVeigh's story is not just a glimpse of the past, but also a warning about the future.

And I guess that kind of sums up the book, is that fair to say?

It is.

You know, I covered the McVeigh and Nichols trials back in 1997.

People may remember they were moved to Denver.

And the story was sort of in the back of my mind

for a long time.

And then in October of 2020 you may remember that's when the

FBI arrested a bunch of people who were trying to kidnap Governor Whitmer of

Michigan.

Yes, yes.

They were affiliated with the Michigan militia.

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