And of course, Rick is an American treasure.

Your task will not be an easy one.

Your enemy is well trained, well equipped, and battlehardt.

There is not a liberal America and a conservative America.

There is the United States of America.

Good night and good luck.

Hey, folks, it's Rick Wilson.

Welcome back to the Lincoln Project Podcast.

I am absolutely thrilled to be joined today by Jeffrey Sonnenfeld.

Jeffrey Sonnenfeld is one of the keenest observers of business and leadership in this country.

He is the director, our chief executive of the Yale Leadership Institute. And folks, if you've never heard of it,

they bring in the top corporate talent in the world to talk about what's happening in business,

government, politics. It is an amazing, amazing place where super smart people get together.

And Jeffrey is a connector of those people. And someone who understands the role of business in American life in a way that very few other people do. Jeffrey, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I am very grateful to have you with us. Thank you. I'm so honored to be with you, Rick. As you know, you hate it when I say this, but you truly are American treasure. However, what you just said in the introduction, I must say this podcast,

I've got to send it to the president of Yale because this will surely get me through the year,

if not more. So thank you. Well, let's get started. I wanted to talk to you about the illusion

of Trump as a businessman and the corporate world in America, which seems to be having a really

hard time right now recognizing or reconciling what to do in this election. There seems to be a

push and pull. He's a guy that none of these people would ever hire. Trump would never be in a C-suite

in any of these major corporations or any job, frankly.

But yet they're still drawn back by this idea that he's a great business leader,

a tax cutter, et cetera.

...