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Donald Trump and his team are, as we record this, playing down an extraordinary security breach that saw a top journalist from the Atlantic magazine added to a group on Signal, a messaging platform where members of Donald Trump's team were messaging about actual plans to launch strikes on the Houthis in Yemen.

And it seems to come down to whether those were battle plans or war plans, which tells you something about the state of modern politics.

The thing that will bother politicians most on this side of the pond, though, is the disdain that's shown by leading US figures for them,

for European leaders, not just from P. HECF, the Defence Secretary, but critically from the man

we're going to talk about today, the Vice President, J.D. Vance, who many people now think is Donald Trump's natural successor.

Yeah, and J.D. Vance might think that. Listen, by any normal account or measure, J.D. Vance is

one of the most interesting and obviously powerful men on the planet. We're going to get into

his backstory. He grew up in extreme poverty, he's something of an intellectual figure,

he served in the army, he's so extraordinarily interesting. And a thing that's so fascinating

about his appointment as Vice President and the way he's conducting himself is that he shows

that there is a MAGA movement and make America great again, national populism that will

outlast Donald Trump. Trumpism will, through

J.D. Vance, outlast Donald Trump. And he has a worldview, which we want to understand today

with the help of a very good friend of his. Or he is not a very good friend of his. Someone who certainly

is something of an ideological fellow traveler and who has spent time with Vance and who can help

us understand the way he thinks.

That is James Orr, a Cambridge philosopher,

who I met last week on a live recording

of the today debate.

And just talking to him during that debate,

before and after, I thought James Orr was exactly the kind of person

...