I think most of the Western intelligence agencies have a really deep connection going back to the very earliest days of Hollywood. That was something that surprised me when I started researching and writing on this. And he's explained to him how the Vatican Bank works. I thought that was really crazy. And why does Jeffrey Epstein have such an intimate knowledge of how the Vatican Bank works? It's crazy. Yeah, that's pretty nuts. So that being said, when you think of a totem pole, would you put him at the top? the top because there's some people that think he's a bond or some people that think he

took orders from someone but, would you put him at the top? Because there's some people that think he's a bond or some people that think he took orders from someone. But where do you put him? All right, guys, got Jay on the show today. My man was up late last night debating, but I got him in the morning here. How's it going,

man? Yeah, I'm a little groggy. We had a long, a three-hour debate, but yeah, glad to be with you, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I tuned into a little bit of it, a gnostic informant, right? That was who you were going up against? It was. It was fun. I don't think he won, but I'm biased because I was in it.

But yeah, it was fun.

Did they pull the audience or? It was fun. I don't think he won, but I'm biased because I was in it.

But, yeah, it was fun. Did they pull the audience, or you kind of just read the comments and felt? I pulled the audience, but you got to see a little. My audience is going to say I was. Right. Yeah, you're doing a lot of debates these days, man. I love it. How long you've been doing debates for? You know, I've been debating for probably 25 years.

I started back when I was about 20 around the year 2000 and then but doing it sort of publicly in the

in the in the YouTube sphere and all that we started about 10 years ago with a lot of atheist debates

and then it branched out in debating Muslims and messianic Jews and you

you name it like atheists it's all over the place so I've been done it for about eight or 10 years

on YouTube that's insane because back then I'm sure the money wasn't as good as now right

no like in fact there wasn't even really a huge debate culture on youtube back then, but I started out in the domain of blood sports.

So back when that was kind of kicking off and it was tied with a lot of drama that kind of propelled, you know, the online debate sphere to get to get bigger.

And at the same time, you had people like Crowder that was going out and doing debates, you know, with like college students. And so it was kind of similar, you know, tracks of people doing debate. And now it's kind of blown up, you know, with the crucible and all that kind of stuff, whatever podcast and so forth. How do you feel about the current state of the debate culture? I see mixed opinions on it. But as someone that participates in them, what do you feel like is uh going on exactly that's a good question because a lot of people ditch about the fact that people kind of get aggressive and i think you can do both styles like i don't see any problem with if you want to have an open you know just going at it you know blood support style where everybody's just, you know, doing it.

That's fine with me. I do that too. And I do formal debate. So I don't see a problem with

both formats. Yeah. There's advantages both ways. Bloodsports are more entertaining, but formal debate

can be, you know, you can learn a lot from a formal debate. For sure. Yeah, I doubt with both.

I think they're both needed. There's an audience for both of them for sure. Do you kind of have a hit list of who you want to debate next or you kind of just take a day by day? Man, you know what? It's been pretty hard in the last year to get anybody to do it. So I know that sounds kind of douchebaggy, but like I'm being serious. We've had a hard time finding you.

I've reached out to probably 20 different people.

I'd like to debate Trent Horn on the geopolitics of the Vatican because he seems to really want to cover up the, you know, implications of the Vatican, not just with Epstein, but also like other previous PDF creeps like Jimmy Saville. And,

you know, really the Vatican, I think its actions are better explained by the geopolitical stuff

than any kind of appeal to the supernatural. So I'd love to debate some Roman Catholic on that,

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