You're in the Paracast, the gold standard of paranormal radio.

And now, here's Gene Steinberg.

So if you notice that the audio quality of Chris O'Brien's chatter is a little bit less than perfect

is because he's using, what, a headset mic on the road?

Oh, sorry about that.

No, I'm just talking into my laptop, basically. I'm in Santa Fe.

I'm in for wilds of northern New Mexico and working on book two of the Stalking to Herd project with my mentor, best friend in many ways.

We've known each other 20 plus years, have been close research buddies.

I've gained a lot of insight.

I owe a lot of my quality of thinking to David Perkins or Izzy Zane, as he's known,

amongst a few, select few friends.

Before I go on, how does he become Izzy?

It was a joke decades ago.

You know, people were wondering, Izzy Sane.

It was like Izzy Zang, you know, it just kind of evolved into this pen name, I guess.

When I call him up, I say, hey, he is, what's up?

You know, it's not, hi, Dave, or hi, David, I guess. When I call him up, I say, hey, he is, what's up?

You know, it's not, hi, Dave, or hi, David.

You know, it's, he's the is.

So anyway, we rarely get a chance to get together and compare notes.

He was absolutely instrumental in, you know, allowing me the wonderful opportunity to have a research fellow helping me out on some real crucial end of the project subjects and stuff.

And we realize that we really need to do a follow-up book, that the two of us postulate

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