Hello and welcome to today's independent travel podcast with me, Simon Calder, and I'm delighted to say I've got a very special guest.

None other than Leon Daniels, who I've been kind of a disciple of for decades.

He was managing director of surface transport and transport for London. He used to work

for first group. He built his own business. He knows much more about transport than I ever will.

And in particular, he knows much more about buses. You might recall, I was singing the praises just a week or so

ago about the marvellous number 63 bus.

And this has been trumpeted by Transport for London as the future of the bus.

It's running almost, it goes from Honor Oak in southeast London, right through to King's Cross.

And I enjoyed the way that it was running on batteries, the way it's got a sunroof,

really good information provision, somewhere to plug in your phone, all sorts of miracles.

And the reason I'm talking to Leon is that he got in touch with me and said,

actually, I know a thing or two about buses in London and I can tell you that perhaps your celebration of the number 63 is a little bit late.

So, Leon, talk to me first of all about all electric buses.

Simon, thank you very much. I'm honoured with your introduction. Thank you.

Actually, we've had all electric buses in London for quite a long time.

I brought the first couple of them into London in 2013.

What, a decade ago?

A decade ago. Oh, my goodness.

Two Chinese single-decker buses ran on Route 507 and 521 back in 2013, ran very, very well.

And so by 2016, we converted all of the 507 and 521,

which is 50 vehicles. And they run on the important services between Waterloo and Victoria

Station on the 507 and to London Bridge on the 521. They carry thousands of people coming

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