James Verini and Dan Gabriel on the Battle for Mosul
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 23 October 2019
⏱️ 46 minutes
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Summary
In 2014, the precipitous fall of the ancient city of Mosul signaled the sudden rise to power of the Islamic State, a group that would soon declare a new caliphate from Mosul's Great Mosque. Two years later, Mosul served as one of the group's last major enclaves in Iraq and became the site of grinding, brutal urban warfare as Iraqi forces sought to reclaim control, block by block.
Last week, Lawfare senior editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with two journalists who have produced new works documenting the battle for Mosul: veteran war correspondent James Verini, who is the author of the new book "They Will Have to Die Now," and former CIA official Dan Gabriel, who recently directed the documentary film entitled Mosul. They discussed the pivotal role the city has played in recent Iraqi history—and what the struggle over it may be able to tell us about the future of the country and region.
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair |
| 0:07.2 | podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:14.7 | That's patreon.com slash LawFair. |
| 0:18.2 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair |
| 0:25.6 | no bull and the aftermath. |
| 0:33.9 | We tend to thank violent Islamic extremism as primarily a religious phenomenon. |
| 0:38.3 | Of course, that was the last thing on the minds of so many of the people that are involved |
| 0:42.4 | in this conflict, even from within the ISIS side. |
| 0:45.6 | When you get down to the motivations, it oftentimes ends up being as simple as a job or security |
| 0:51.0 | or food. |
| 0:52.0 | And of course, that in my mind is the reason why ISIS ended up in control of Mosul. |
| 0:57.0 | It's the cautionary tale of what we need to be careful for in the future as well, less |
| 1:02.4 | that type of political vacuum coming to existence again. |
| 1:05.8 | But from 2004-2005, we were talking about the same issues, the disenfranchisement of |
| 1:11.2 | the Sunni minority and what that could pretend. |
| 1:14.2 | And that was 14, 15 years ago. |
| 1:16.8 | So now we've now been through two iterations, al-Qaeda in Iraq and then ISIS growing from |
| 1:21.0 | the same cause. |
| 1:23.0 | I'm Michaela Fogel and this is the LawFair podcast October 22, 2019. |
| 1:30.5 | In 2014, the precipitous fall of the ancient city of Mosul signaled the sudden rise to |
| 1:36.1 | power of the Islamic State, a group that would soon declare a new caliphate from Mosul's |
| 1:40.8 | great mosque. |
... |
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