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James Tabor is an historian of ancient religions. He's taught at Notre Dame at William and Mary,

just retired from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte. And he's written books on Jesus,

on John the Baptist and Paul. But he says in a new book, his search for Mary, the mother of Jesus,

has been the greatest challenge

of his career. Tabor is arguing the real Mary. Mary in her own time and place is missing from

her story. He says she was a proud Jewish woman shaped by Roman occupation and not just a vessel

who brought Jesus into the world.

She was someone who helped shape his teaching and his sense of mission and who helped hold the

Jesus movement together after his death. That's the case he makes in the book, and it's a case

he's been teaching for decades.

One of the things I've done now for, boy, 25 years,

is to take students to Jerusalem to do archaeological excavations.

We do it in the summer.

And we usually stay in a hotel in the old city.

I want to give the students the experience, you know, feeling Jerusalem in that walled ancient city going back 3,000 years.

And right outside the wall where we stay is the Notre Dame Center, which is the Catholic center for the Holy Land.

It's where the Pope would stay if he made a visit.

It's where lots of Catholic pilgrims come.

But on top is the statue of Mary holding Jesus, as you would expect. And you can see it

from anywhere in the city. It is really towering. And so I usually stop and I say, students, look,

...