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Best of the Spectator

James Heale and Sebastian Payne: Out of the Blue and The Fall of Boris Johnson

Best of the Spectator

The Spectator

News Commentary, News, Daily News, Society & Culture

4.4785 Ratings

🗓️ 23 November 2022

⏱️ 41 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this week’s Book Club podcast, I’m talking to two of the brave souls who turn recent political dramas into the sort of quickly written books we might call the second draft of history. I’m joined by the FT’s Sebastian Payne, author of The Fall of Boris Johnson, and our own James Heale, co-author of a Liz Truss biography, Out Of The Blue, which notoriously was so rapidly overtaken by events that she was out before it was. They tell me how they disentangle their duties in their day jobs as political reporters from what they owe their book readers, how differently sources will speak to authors than journalists, what the day to day press got wrong – and whether they think history will look more kindly on their subjects than the front pages.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello and welcome to The Spectator's Book Club podcast. I'm Sam Leith, the literary editor of The Spectator.

0:11.4

And this week, my guests are going to be talking about, well, if journalism is the first draft of history,

0:16.6

I think we could call this the second draft of history. They are both the authors, or in one case, co-author, of books that are kind of journalistic books

0:24.7

about things that have more or less only just happened.

0:27.5

So hot off the press, we have James Hill, who is the Spectator's Diary Editor and co-author

0:33.8

with the Suns Political Editor, Harry Cole, of a new book called Out of the Blue,

0:39.3

The Inside Story of the Unexpected Rise and Rapid Fall of Liz Truss, and another spectator

0:44.9

alumnus, the F.T. Sebastian Payne, whose own new book is called The Fall of Boris Johnson,

0:52.0

The Fool Story.

1:00.4

Now, both of you, I suppose the first person I should come to is James, because his book is even more recent.

1:03.4

Well, the book's not more recently, but the events it describes more recent.

1:06.3

Your book was notoriously overtaken by events.

1:12.4

In fact, I don't think the original title was going to have the word fall in it at all, was it?

1:17.9

No, when we started writing, it was a fortnight before she became Prime Minister, when it was clear she was going to win that Conservative leadership contest. And so I think we and most of Westminster

1:24.2

envis that she'd be in power for two years until the next election.

1:32.8

That was very much the assumption of it. And so we began writing as the rise of Liz Truss and talking about who this woman was and perhaps looking ahead to what her premiership might look like.

1:37.5

As it was, we ended up finishing on the day she walked out of number 10. We extended the deadline

1:42.7

a little bit and yeah, the last day it ends with her driving off into the sunset at the end of an extraordinary

1:48.5

50-day premiership in British political history. Did that mean sort of going through, I mean,

1:54.0

publishing schedules being what they are? Were you able to go through the whole manuscript and,

1:58.0

for example, you know, insert the word not in various

2:01.9

kind of complementary notes about her political acumen and so forth? Or is it just a new intro

...

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