Jake Sullivan: Trump Is Making China Great Again

The Bulwark Podcast

The Bulwark

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 8.9K Ratings

🗓️ 27 August 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

A year ago, China was globally isolated and its economy was struggling. But once Trump was back in office pursuing his own personal and political gain, the U.S. brand got tossed in the toilet and the view from Beijing got pretty sweet. Trump has allowed China to buy American microchips that could be used against our own national security interests, he caved on his own trade war with the country, and the divisions he's creating with allies in the West have made China's propaganda job a whole lot easier. Plus, the tragedy in Gaza, the evolving U.S.-Israel relationship, the one powerful way to squeeze Putin's war machine, and re-examining Biden's original plan to run for re-election. Former National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan joins Tim Miller.

show notes

Sullivan's piece on Gaza for the Israeli news site, Ynet
Article about Sullivan's comments at The Atlantic Festival in Sept. 2023
Bulwark Live in DC and NYC at https://www.thebulwark.com/p/bulwark-events. Toronto is SOLD OUT

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello and welcome to the Bullwark podcast.
0:14.1	I'm your host Tim Miller.
0:15.2	Quick reminder, it's Wednesday.
0:16.5	So I'm also over on the next level feed.
0:18.3	Sarah's back from vacation.
0:19.9	And I'm going to make her talk about
0:21.3	that New York Times article about the A-gays in the Trump administration. So, you know, if you want my
0:28.2	views on that, make sure to check out the next level. But on this show, I've got a new guest,
0:33.2	delighted to welcome him. He was a national security advisor to Joe Biden. It's Jake Sullivan. How you doing,
0:38.3	Jake? I'm doing okay. Thanks for having me on. Just okay. That sounds right. That's a good answer.
0:43.2	I was told you asked to go on the podcast because you wanted a platform to formally endorse Donald
0:47.0	Trump's campaign for the Nobel Peace Prize. Is that right? Do you want to do that right now?
0:52.4	You know, I thought long and hard about it, but no, I definitely do not want to do that.
0:57.5	Okay.
0:58.0	Also, I feel like after yesterday's cabinet meeting where everybody went around and played the part of a Kim Jong-un documentary, we've just run out of praise for Donald Trump.
1:09.3	It's all been done. It's all been given. So nothing more. Any of your past bosses desperate for recognition at this level, kind of begging you to get them peace prizes or like put their picture on the side of buildings or anything? Is that something that you ever encounter? Honestly, I've never seen anything like it. And it's, there is a kind of ludicrous, humorous quality to it, but it's also a little bit
1:30.1	scary because it, you know, it reflects something deeper and dangerous about the president's
1:36.1	autocratic tendencies and the fact that these people around him are just so slavish that I don't
1:41.6	think they would stand up to him on anything at any point. And without those kinds of
1:46.2	guardrails, I think it's bleak what we may be facing here in the coming days and months. Yeah, I agree.
1:53.6	I mean, even that sliver of Trump supporters who don't want autocracy, I think if you got them
1:58.0	drunk and were like, hey, do you think that this crew and the cabinet would stand up to him if he decided he wanted to stay in three years?
	...

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