At checkout.com, we know most people have never heard of us, and that's just how we like it.

So making an advert that does nothing but talk about who we are and what we do,

well, it's kind of awkward.

And even though we're proud to be the silent partner behind some of the world's biggest brands,

quietly handling their digital payments,

talking about it in an advert during a podcast.

It's just not our style, really.

Checkout.com, where the world checks out.

When I was little, we were all told how it goes, when two people love each other, they get together and they make a baby.

But then we all learn that quite often they just can't, and that's very sad.

Now, many couples, of all sorts, turn to IVF treatment, which is improving every year.

But as the technology becomes more effective, it can create some unlooked-for consequences.

It introduces this element of time that you can conceive embryos that are not just stated for maybe 10 years. A lot can happen during the time the

embryos are in the freezer. You're listening to stories of our times, and the Times and the Sunday

Times. I'm David Aronovich. Today, IVF, fraud and unwanted children.

I'm Jenny Clemen. I present Times Radio Breakfast at the weekend with Luke Jones, and I'm also an investigative journalist. And investigations, they take quite a lot of effort and time, don't they?

They do take quite a lot of effort and time. You have to be quite nerdy and be very interested in the details, but the more you do them, the more people come to you

with stories. And that's what certainly happened in this case. Before we get into the body of this,

can you just summarise very quickly what today's podcast is about? This story is about what happens when you don't have

proper conversations when you embark on fertility treatment. And it's about fraud, essentially.

And I'm interested in this because I've made a podcast about a Dutch fertility doctor who,

without his patient's

...