Hey there, it's Jonathan Kapart and you're listening to Cape Up.

James Kirche's brand new book is titled The End of Europe, Dictators Demagogues in the

Coming Dark Age. We get into some of the themes of the

book including the rightward lurch of Europeans and their governments and the rise of

anti-Semitism. But you can't talk about the continent and foreign policy in general without talking about President Trump in particular.

But it's still a little unnerving that so much of our foreign policy is going to be dependent upon the whims of a man who has no core whatsoever.

What does this mean for NATO?

For containing Russia?

For emerging democracies like Estonia?

You can find out right now.

Jamie Kirche, thank you very much for being on the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

So we were both at the German Marshall Funds

Brussels Forum in March.

And as you know, I interviewed Estonian President Kirstie Caluulite.

I can say it with ease now. And I asked her if she were afraid of Russia and she said,

no, I'm not afraid. I trust NATO.

And in your book, the end of Europe, Dictators' demagogues and the coming dark age, you write extensively on Estonia.

Do you believe her?

Is she right to be so confident in NATO?

I understand the position of the President of Estonia has to say that and I hope she's right.

I'm not sure if I'm so optimistic.

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