The other. Yeah, so narrative non-fiction takes a lot of time because we have to get inside the

minds and the hearts and experiences of people who may not even want to talk about or think about

what they've been through whatever it might be and then once you've done that you've

emerged with the story that has the suspense and the fears the all of the emotions that go along with the decision or whatever

the circumstance might be along with the plot line of their lives.

And then by the time you come out of that with the context of the world that they were living in,

you come out with this full story, but it's the closest that you will ever get to being another person,

because these are real people. and the people have decided to make this great

gift to humanity. I think anyone who participates in an ad of mountain fiction project

is making a gift to them, meet humanity by allowing other people to see and to feel and to hear

and to be with them in those really difficult moments as they're going through that and it's

supposed to get to being an actual other person.

Isabel Wilkerson is one of the great writers of her generation.

With her first book, The Warmth of Other Sons about the Great Migration and her new book

Her second book Cast about global systemic racism the Pulitzer Prize winner explains

What it is to be black with a depth and a perception and a beauty of writing that is rarely seen.

These two books are towering achievements and her writing style is

gorgeous. I love her work and I love talking to her. It's an honor to dig into

what went into making these two amazing books.

It's Isabel Wilkerson on Torrey Show. The novel analogy feels very apt because at times I feel like I'm in a novel as I said I can see these people I can almost

taste their food and I can feel their pain and that's sort of a big part of why for me, for a lot of people,

your books are connecting so deeply because it's not just the

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