Ted Audio Collective.

Audio Collective.

Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant.

Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast on the science of what makes us tick with the Ted

Audio Collective. I'm an organizational psychologist and I'm taking you inside the minds of

fascinating people to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

My guest today is Sarah Edmondson, who hosts the podcast a little bit culty.

She was a key whistleblower on the Nexium cult, a racketeering enterprise involving sex

trafficking, sexual abuse, forced labor, and fraud. Sarah described her experiences with Nexium in her memoir,

Scard, and in the docu series, The Vow. I was originally talking with Sarah for

an upcoming work-life episode on charisma, but she had so much insight to offer that I

ended up rethinking that and decided to future our full conversation here instead.

She has a lot to teach us about questioning leadership and how to tell the difference between a strong culture and a cult.

Before we get started, I just have to say that I've just finished a two month break from all podcasts.

So I'm feeling a little rusty.

It was a very cathartic, a very,

a much needed break of not talking about cult stuff

for two months, although it does come up in conversation.

Got it, so you think you're rusty on content as opposed to on conversation.

That makes more sense.

If you went on a two month silent meditation retreat or something, I'm like, yeah, talking could be a little bit weird.

Yeah, and I wouldn't do that anyway. A, because I wouldn't be able to sit still and B because I find that stuff a little bit culty.

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