Is the Border Really in Crisis? Crime, Fentanyl & the Facts - with Jennie Murray

Good Faith

Religion & Spirituality, Christianity

4.8 • 1.9K Ratings

🗓️ 11 December 2025

⏱️ 55 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Can We Welcome the Stranger and Uphold the Law?

How should Christians think about immigration, the border crisis, and refugees—without getting trapped in partisan talking points? In this Good Faith podcast episode, host Curtis Chang sits down with Jennie Murray, president of the National Immigration Forum, to explore a faith-informed approach to U.S. immigration policy. They explore why the U.S. immigration system is so broken and confusing, the tension between compassion and the rule of law, how immigration affects jobs, labor shortages, and the economy, all while debunking myths about crime, fentanyl, and "open borders."

(02:34) - Christian first or American first? Identity and immigration
(06:01) - Compassion vs rule of law?
(10:36) - How the immigration system is failing
(14:09) - What really drives migration
(18:21) - Labor, talent, and the U.S. economy
(22:12) - Who counts as "illegal" or "undocumented"?
(31:27) - Law, grace, and the gospel
(37:34) - Crime, fentanyl, and fear-based narratives
(48:03) - What ordinary Christians can do

Episode Guide for Personal and Group Study

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Mentioned In This Episode:

TRAC: Immigration numbers and research
Refugee resettlement ceilings and numbers caps: Migration Policy Institute
A Turning Point for the Unauthorized Immigrant Population in the United States
Gallup Polling: Surge in U.S. Concern About Immigration Has Abated
Pew Research Research: Majority of Americans to say immigrants strengthen the U.S.
Pew Research: U.S. Unauthorized Immigrant Total Dips to Lowest Level in a Decade
Lifeway/World Relief Research Study: Evangelical Views on Immigration Study
Pew Research: Support for Legal Status for Immigrants Illegally Ariving as Children
Bill Summary: Dream Act of 2025
CATO Institute: 72% Believe Immigrants Enter the U.S. for Jobs & to Improve Their Lives

Referenced Scripture:

Leviticus 19:34 (ESV) - The foreigner residing among you
Matthew 25:35-36 (ESV) - Treatment of the stranger

International Comparison Stories:

Reuters, Nov 2022: Canada's immigration targets to fill workforce gaps/support economic growth
DW News, June 2023: Germany aims to make it easier for non-nationals to work there
The Guardian, April 2023): Australia targets skilled migrants to fill critical job vacancies
BBC News, Dec 2023): "The UK government is responding to workforce shortages by expanding visa opportunities for foreign workers

More From Jennie Murray and National Immigration Forum:

More about Jennie Murray
Learn more about National Immigration Forum
Engage with Resources from National Immigration Forum

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Listeners, I have some exciting news for you. We have never given away good faith swag.
0:07.5	Until now, for the first time ever, you can get your own good faith camping mug in our brand new look.
0:15.1	Imagine sipping your coffee with us in the morning or using it around the campfire with friends.
0:19.6	And as you consider your year-end
0:21.5	giving, any donation of $50 or more to Good Faith will receive this mug as a thank you. To support
0:28.6	these conversations and grab this inaugural piece of Good Faith swag, just click the link in the show notes.
0:39.1	The last several years, the situation at the border has been bad.
0:44.5	And we need to name the fact that the border had a flow that it could not handle.
0:51.2	It was not orderly.
0:52.8	It was not secure.
0:56.3	And it was not humane. And we need to just be honest about that. We need to have that conversation and to realize that you can both be
1:03.3	welcoming, but also want to have a secure and orderly system. There's 120 million displaced people around the globe at this very particular moment.
1:14.1	Obviously, the U.S. cannot absorb that and wouldn't want to, and that wouldn't be responsible.
1:19.6	But what we can do is to look at, you know, security, an orderly system, and a humane response.
1:26.0	And to really just say, hey, yes, we want to welcome,
1:29.6	but we can do it in a way that that also balances these other concerns. Welcome to the Good Faith podcast.
1:51.3	We're friends who follow Jesus, help each other make sense of the world.
1:55.8	I'm your host, Curtis Chang.
1:57.6	This podcast is produced by the parent organization, Good Faith, a nonpartisan 501C3
2:04.0	organization. Over the last couple of months, we here at the podcast have been sharing with you
2:10.3	a set of episodes on the topic of immigration. We talked with Pastor Paco Amador on what the current crackdown on immigrants in our nation's cities is doing to the local church.
2:22.3	Then we talked to Myel Green, President of World Relief, to explore a key aspect of immigration, which is the refugee crisis.
	...

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