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I remember Powell's speech.

I remember the shock that we all felt, the idea that a senior politician who would actually

use such language, which denigates minority people

in this country.

I'm unhappy that we have senior politicians who use language which is reminiscent

of Powell and I'm sorry that Kirstama used some of the phrases that you've just quoted.

I'm sorry he did that because it's not the sort of person he is and I don't think it's

what he actually believes in.

So you think the language is, at least to some extent, reminiscent of Powell?

Yeah, yes. I think it is. That is Lord Alf Dubs. He's a Labour peer and he's a former child refugee

and he heard in Kier-Starmer's immigration speech yesterday, the language reminiscent of Enoch Powell.

Dubs is, in many ways, the moral conscience on immigration of the Labour Party, arguably even of the country.

So powerful is his story as a Jewish child fleeing from the horrors of Nazism on the Kinder Transport.

These words, on a day when Number 10 is being forced to reject the charge,

that he has channeled Enoch Powell will carry weight and force.

We've been speaking to him exclusively on the show today. Welcome to the newsagents.

The Newsagents. It's Emily. It's Lewis. And 24 hours after Kirstama made that pretty

jaw-dropping speech on immigration, many people are discussing not just the policy changes that have

come in, but the choice of language. And on the episode yesterday, we discussed some of those

phrases, the island of strangers, the idea of a lab experiment. And this whole question of whether Stama was

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