Hello and welcome to the bunker. I'm Gavin Esler. Here's a question that might take five years to answer or

perhaps more. We know Kieur-Stamer promised change. It's a great slogan in a tired

Britain, but what does it mean? The Prime Minister has been resolute in the face of

writers and clear that he wants to rebuild so many parts of the public sector in

Britain that don't work anymore from sewage in the rivers to train strikes to the obvious problems we have with seeing a doctor or a dentist.

Historically you could say that from Clement Attley becoming Prime Minister in 1945, until 1979 the United Kingdom saw roughly the triumph of the public

sector. That included most obviously the creation of the NHS to the nationalised railways, steel industry and coal mines.

Then from 1979 Mrs Thatcher to today we saw the counter-revolution, the dominance of the private sector.

So could Starmer boldly usher in a third

post-war phase that like Attley and Thatcher lasts beyond the next day's headlines

into the next generation.

For his thoughts on all this,

I'm delighted to be joined in the bunker

by George Eaton, political editor of the news statement.

George, welcome to the bunker.

Thank, Damin.

Nice to be here. Thank you, I mean, nice to be here.

How bold is Starmer likely to be?

I know this is a bit of reading the ruins and he is in some ways quite a cautious person, but

he is also quite tough. Yes, I mean I've often described him in recent

articles as a quiet radical I think you saw that in the in the labor

manifesto it was often described as a very sort of centrist new labor management It was in some of the

...