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Hello and welcome to Special Saturday edition of Coffee House Shots.

Is Richie's unit going soft on China?

This week the Prime Minister gave his first big foreign policy speech

and to use a phrase that rang alarm bells, robust pragmatism.

There's also a question as to how the UK government will define China.

The China hawks want in the updated integrated review.

The phrase systemic threat to be used at the moment and is viewed as a systemic challenge.

To discuss, I'm drawn by the host and producer of the Chinese whispers podcast.

James Forsyfe and Fraser Nelson.

Fraser, can you just kick us off?

What do you think is the perception of Richie's unit going foreign affairs?

In many ways it's the place area where we know he's views the least and coming out as a chancellor.

The perception is that he doesn't have any views on foreign affairs, not really.

That he struggles to get enthusiastic about it.

You show him a budget when it doesn't add up and he goes bananas.

But you show him the rest of the world and he struggles to get excited about, for example,

the Northern Ireland protocol, Russia, China.

Not that he doesn't care about these things, but they don't particularly stir him in the way that they stir other people.

Now you get politicians who are simply like that.

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