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Hello and welcome to this special Saturday edition of Coffee How Shots. I'm James Heal

and I'm joined today by Fraser Nelson and Isabel Hardman.

Now we've been talking a lot on the podcast this week about migration and the potential

ramifications for the government's legacy but another big policy issue which perhaps

is under discussed at the moment is net zero. And Fraser you've written a column about it this

week. Talk us through your thinking on it and you've point out that Rishi Sunak doesn't mention

net zero nearly as much as Boris Johnson did. Why is that?

I think we're seeing a quite retreat from a net zero agenda. Rishi Sunak is always known to be

very skeptical about it and not that he's not environmentally minded. He just thought

these things need to be costed. Rishi Sunak's creed isn't really conservatism.

It's trade-offism. If you want to do something in politics you need to be completely upfront

about how much is going to cost and who's going to pay. Now that kind of bill is arriving in the

rest of Europe but we've seen Dutch farmers drive their tractors into the hage to protests.

We've seen Sweden's got a new 27 year old environment minister who's been steadily watering down

the environmental obligations. But Germans have of course had the shock of the Ukraine war

but they're now actually pulling down wind turbines to expand coal-fired power plants

and also I think more significantly if it shows you the pace of change. Just five months ago

Germany was backing this EU law to rule out the sale of new petrol cars by 2035.

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