It's the Brian Larry Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. The future of New York City has been left for dead, a number of times now in the last 50 years during the fiscal crisis of the 70s,

the crime waves of the 80s after 9-11 in 2001 and the financial crisis of 2008.

And then came the pandemic of the 2020s and a theory from a Columbia University Business School professor

who's about to be our guest,

with a theory he framed as the urban doom loop.

Urban doom loop.

You've probably heard that by now.

Other cities have been caught in such loops before with decline of one sort or another,

followed by many people leaving, which depleted the tax base,

which hurt city services, which caused more people in businesses to leave, and new people

in businesses not to come, an urban doom loop. This one, the theory goes, would be caused by

remote work becoming permanent for many people, hurting small businesses near the half-empty office towers,

and maybe a commercial real estate crash that could bring down local banks even and further

send the city into a doom loop of decline. But more recently, Dr. Doomloop, if I can call him that,

has been singing a more optimistic tune. Not totally,

but a couple of years now after he coined the term, things are looking less doomy, even if still

kind of loopy, and with even the possibility that the pandemic economy and its long tail could

offer the city new opportunities for growth

and renewal. So let's hear his take at whatever level of complexity he sees at this point in

24. Maybe some of you saw him on 60 minutes last weekend too. My guest is Columbia Business School

Professor of Finance and Real Estate, Stan Van Niroberg.

Professor Van Nierberg, thanks for coming on with us.

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