This is open to debate. I'm John Donvan. Hi, everybody. In this episode, Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, Elon Musk's claim to be cleaning house in the federal government. Now, some people are cheering for it, and for him and many others are just outraged.

There is a lot to say about Doge, a lot to ask about it.

For this debate, our question, which two of the most prominent constitutional scholars in the nation, will argue from a strictly legal perspective, a strictly legal perspective, our question is this, is Elon Musk's

doge dodging the law? So let's meet our debaters, answering yes to our question, which once again is,

is Musk's doge dodging the law? I want to welcome Lawrence Tribe. Larry, you are a highly esteemed

constitutional lawyer. You taught law at Harvard for many, many years.

And at Harvard, you were named a university professor, which is actually a rank, the highest academic rank that you can achieve at Harvard.

And you have also argued before the Supreme Court a most impressive 36 times.

Larry, we're so delighted to have you on the program. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you. And here to answer no to our question is Musk's Doge dodging law. I want to welcome

Michael W. McConnell. Michael is a judge and currently teaching at Stanford Law School where he is the

director of the constitutional law center and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute.

Previously, he served as a federal judge on the United States Court of Appeals in the 10th Circuit,

which is one of the highest courts in the land. He is also a former debater with us. So in your case,

Michael, I want to say welcome back to open the debate. Thank you. It's great to have both of you here.

So let's get on to our opening statements.

And in your openings, we want each of you to take a little bit of time on your own to explain why you're arguing yes or no.

Larry, you are up first.

And on our question is Musk's doge dodging the law.

Your answer is yes, he is.

It is.

Please tell us why.

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