Is Investing More Like Poker or Chess?
Money For the Rest of Us
J. David Stein
4.5 • 1.4K Ratings
🗓️ 2 May 2018
⏱️ 32 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
#203 How to make better investing and life decisions. More information, including show notes, can be found here.
Episode Summary
David asks the question, “Is investing more like poker or chess?” on this episode of Money For the Rest of Us in order to help you better understand why investing is inherently unpredictable. The book, “Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All the Facts” by Annie Duke inspired this episode. David ponders big ideas such a reflexive vs. deliberative thinking and why the differences between causation and correlation must be considered. If you’ve ever wondered about how to improve your investing decisions while combining analytical research with skilled intuition, this episode will answer many of your questions.
Investing and life are like poker – not chess!
Many investors approach financial decisions like a game of chess, where there are correct and incorrect moves. However investing, and real life, are more closely related to poker, a game of uncertainties. Duke explains in her book that a term known as “resulting” drives poker games. “Resulting” is the belief that the quality of a decision affects the quality of the outcome. However, David explains that a great decision is a result of a great decision-making process, regardless of the end outcome. Learn how to improve your decision-making process by listening to this episode.
Don’t assume causation when there’s only correlation
One of the biggest threats to a good decision making processes it the belief that there is always a direct causation linking the process and the end result. Even with the best knowledge and highest levels of skill, investing still contains an element of uncertainty. Sometimes there aren’t any connections between the decisions investors make and the end goal. For example, if you purchase a house, fix it up, and sell it 3 years later for a 50% profit, does that make you great at real estate investing? Maybe. But it could also have been a result of an overall uptick in the housing market, and any buy/sell transaction would have been profitable. David wants his listeners to know that correlation between good investing decisions and profitable outcomes do not always mean the same result will occur.
How can you improve the quality of your investing decisions?
Since investing is strongly related to the uncertainties and variables found in a game of poker, there are never surefire ways to ensure every decision will be profitable. But there are ways to increase your chances of succeeding. Duke explains that “The quality of our lives is the sum of our decision quality plus luck.” Investors can enhance their decision-making skills by considering market trends and understanding that no one knows for sure what market variables are going to do. David shares more tips for improving the quality of your investing decisions on this episode.
Deliberative thinking vs reflexive thinking and the idea of wu-wei in investing
David outlines two main patterns of thought on this episode: reflexive (fast) and deliberative (slow). Responsible investors utilize both methods on a continual basis. Always reacting to the market and going off of intuition is not a sustainable way of making investing decisions. However, utilizing only deliberative thinking could result in missed time-sensitive opportunities. That’s when the idea of wu-wei comes into play. David explains that wu-wei is “A state of perfect equanimity, flexibility, and responsiveness that is unrestrained by the conscious mind because it does not attempt to predict variables.” Essentially, it’s the idea of embracing the unknown and keeping the balance between fast and slow thinking.
Episode Chronology
[0:57] Is investing more like poker or chess?
[7:02] Investing, and life, are like poker – not chess
[12:05] Don’t assume causation when there’s only correlation
[13:38] How do we improve the quality of our investing decisions?
[18:45] 2 ways of thinking about investing: fast & slow
[23:00] The idea of wu-wei and how it relates to investing
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | Welcome to Money for the rest of us. This is a personal finance show. It's on money, how it works, how to invest it, how to live, without worrying about it. |
| 0:09.0 | I'm your host, David Stein. Today is episode 203. |
| 0:12.0 | Its title is episode 203. |
| 0:13.0 | Its title, is Investing, more like Poker, or Chess. |
| 0:18.0 | Or is Life More Like Poker, or Chess? |
| 0:22.2 | I spend a lot of time playing both chess and poker as a teenager, particularly in the |
| 0:28.5 | eighth grade where I had a very influential teacher. His name was Bob Hazzie. He was the English teacher, but he also, I guess was the drama teacher, but didn't even, I don't think he got paid to be a drama teacher, but he would put on a musical every year, go to France every summer, |
| 0:47.6 | and he would organize his desk into sort of groups of six to eight desks pushed up together. And I would play poker at those |
| 0:58.5 | desks during class. I would secretly shuffle the cards, hand them out to my classmates in our little island, a |
| 1:06.7 | desk never got caught. And I thought I was pretty cool. I was able to play. The teacher never called me out. |
| 1:18.0 | Until many years later I realized maybe I wasn't quite that smart. |
| 1:24.0 | Maybe he just overlooked it. |
| 1:27.4 | Because he had called me out for other things. |
| 1:30.3 | I remember being in the teacher lounge after school. |
| 1:33.6 | We worked on a news program, a few students and I that this teacher had organized. |
| 1:40.3 | And I borrowed a quarter from them to buy a soda from the soda machine. |
| 1:46.0 | And unbeknownst to me, or at least to my rational mind, 30 minutes later, |
| 1:50.0 | I pulled out four quarters from my pocket to do a magic trick. The next day the |
| 1:56.8 | teacher pulled me aside and sort of pointed out this inconsistency, hey you you borrowed money from me, and yet you had the money. |
| 2:07.0 | I didn't even realize it. Or at least in my mind, it was kind of an extreme form |
| 2:16.8 | of mental accounting. |
| 2:18.4 | I didn't connect the two events, borrowing the money |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from J. David Stein, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of J. David Stein and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.

