Subscribe to the spectator in September and get three months of website and app access absolutely free.

Follow the Tory's leadership campaign, Labor's inaugural budget, and the US elections with Britain's best informed journalists,

and get your first three months free only in September.

Go to Spectator.co. UK.

forward slash sale 24.

Hello and I'm

I'm James Hill and I'm joined today by Patrick Milgar of the Times and

Katie Wall's political end of the spectator.

It was Gladstone who once said,

former Prime Ministers are like untethered rafts drifting around harbours,

a minister shipping, and on this podcast we've discussed a lot about the

minister the shipping under Rishisunak, but now of course it's the turn of a

new Labour Prime Minister and his relations with the two people who previously held that role, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Now Katie, in your column this week, you talk about how Born and Brown popped into the Treasury where he was master for 10 years last week to visit Rachel Reeves in Downing Street.

Tell us about that.

Well as you say James Gordon Brown was a surprise visitor in the Treasury last week.

The first time the obviously former Labour Prime Minister and Chancellor has been

there since leaving government. Now I think that clearly when you join the dots you

think well Gordon Brown entering the Treasury ahead of a potential

winter fuel payment rebellion Gordon Brown of course being the Chancellor who

brought the allowance in Rachel Ruiz being the Labor Chancellor who is acting it. Was the meeting about that? I think close to both sides saying no no no it wasn't specifically about the Winterfield payment but you can't help but feel that will have come up.

Notably, Gordon Brown hasn't publicly spoken about the payment in a negative or positive way.

...