This is the Ramsey Call of the Day, part of the Ramsey Network.

Joining me today is Ramsey Personality, Dr. John Deloney.

All right, John, you are a Ph.D. in counseling, and you've done a lot of trauma work,

and you've done a lot of work with couples over the years as well.

If you were just going to, you may know some research off the top of your head to answer this, but you may also have just an anecdotal feel for it.

When a spouse for virtually, for no obvious reason that's on the surface that's in front of us,

turns away repeated counseling and Stonewall's in counseling,

what percentage of the time is there a third party involved in a fair?

I don't have any data, but that's my first.

That's my number one question.

I always ask somebody.

Are you seeing somebody else?

Are you done?

Right.

Have you moved? If they're saying, I don't want to work on this or they are they sabotage all the counseling

by not showing up or by showing up physically but not emotionally, not relationally

and so on.

They're not engaged in the repair.

Right.

That will be one of the first questions I asked, if not the first, is are you seeing somebody

else?

Are you through with this interaction here?

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