Hi, I'm Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policy's Editor-in-Chief. This is FP Live.

Welcome to the show. Last week, Jake Sullivan made what was only his first visit to China as National Security Advisor.

He met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping and foreign minister Wang Yi,

among others. And when he spoke with reporters afterwards, he had this to say.

We believe that competition with China does not have to lead to conflict or confrontation.

The key is responsible management through diplomacy.

Well, one person who's tasked with the responsible management that Sullivan described there is Nicholas Burns.

He's been the U.S. ambassador to China for more than two years now, a period that includes some of the intense COVID lockdowns in that country.

Once things opened up, Burns traveled the length and

breadth of China by high-speed rail. Of course, that's when he wasn't locked in high-level meetings

in the capital. Burns is an interesting person to speak with for more than just his current role.

He started off as a U.S. diplomat in the 1980s,

and back then, the American political mood on China was very different. A series of U.S. leaders

backed and often lobbied by American businesses were betting then that China would open up, would

become more democratic, and would

neatly slot into a U.S.-run global order. That, of course, did not happen. But for those who wonder

if the pendulum of American opinion and policymaking has now swung too far the other way, Burns is an important voice to

consider, given that he's been involved in policymaking both before and after China's unprecedented

rise. Well, I spoke with Burns about all of this and many other topics, fentanyl, Taiwan,

climate change, for a good 45 minutes.

If you want to watch the video version, head to foreign policy.com slash live.

Otherwise, here is this week's podcast.

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