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that because I work here. Get started today at banta.com. Hi, I'm Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policy's

editor-in-chief. This is FP Live.

Welcome to the show. Last week, Jake Sullivan made what was only his first visit to China as national security advisor. He met with Chinese leader Xi Jinping and foreign minister Wang Yi,

among others, and when he spoke

with reporters afterwards, he had this to say.

We believe that competition with China does not have to lead to conflict or confrontation.

The key is responsible management through diplomacy.

Well, one person who's tasked with the responsible management that Sullivan described there is

Nicholas Burns. He's been the U.S. ambassador to China for more than two years now, a period that

includes some of the intense COVID lockdowns in that country. Once things opened up, Burns traveled the

length and breadth of China by high-speed rail.

Of course, that's when he wasn't locked in high-level meetings in the capital.

Burns is an interesting person to speak with for more than just his current role.

He started off as a U.S. diplomat in the 1980s, and back then, the American political mood on

China was very different. A series of U.S. leaders backed and often lobbied by American businesses

were betting then that China would open up, would become more democratic, and would neatly

slot into a U.S.-run global order.

...