Is AI Scaling Dead? — With Gary Marcus

Big Technology Podcast

Alex Kantrowitz

Technology, Religion & Spirituality, Business News, Business, Religion, Science, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Entrepreneurship, Management, Marketing, Politics, News Commentary, Government, Investing, Tech News, Social Sciences, News

4.6 • 395 Ratings

🗓️ 7 May 2025

⏱️ 54 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Gary Marcus is a cognitive scientist, author, and longtime AI skeptic. Marcus joins Big Technology to discuss whether large‑language‑model scaling is running into a wall. Tune in to hear a frank debate on the limits of “just add GPUs" and what that means for the next wave of AI. We also cover data‑privacy fallout from ad‑driven assistants, open‑source bio‑risk fears, and the quest for interpretability. Hit play for a reality check on AI’s future — and the insight you need to follow where the industry heads next. --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. Want a discount for Big Technology on Substack? Here’s 25% off for the first year: https://www.bigtechnology.com/subscribe?coupon=0843016b Questions? Feedback? Write to: [email protected]

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey you, I'm Andrew Seaman.
0:05.1	Do you want a new job?
0:06.9	Or do you want to move forward in your career?
0:09.8	Well, you should listen to my weekly show called Get Hired with Andrew Seaman.
0:14.5	We talk about it all.
0:16.1	And it's waiting for you, yes, you, wherever you get your podcast.
0:23.0	From LinkedIn News, I'm Jesse Hempel, host of the Hello Monday podcast.
0:28.3	Start your week with the Hello Monday podcast.
0:31.3	We'll navigate career pivots.
0:33.2	We'll learn where happiness fits in.
0:35.1	Listen to Hello Monday with me, Jesse Hempel on the LinkedIn
0:38.3	Podcast Network, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:42.9	Is the AI field reaching the limits of improving models by scaling them up? And what happens
0:48.8	if bigger no longer means better? That's coming up with AI critic Gary Marcus right after this. Welcome to
0:56.1	Big Technology podcast, a show for cool-headed and nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond.
1:01.6	We're joined today by AI critic Gary Marcus, the author of the book Rebooting AI and Marcus on AI on
1:08.2	Substack, and he's here to speak with us about whether the AI industry is
1:12.4	hitting the limits of scaling generative AI models up, and what it means if we're truly
1:17.3	seeing diminishing returns from making these models bigger. Gary, it's great to see you. Welcome
1:22.9	to the show. Thanks for having you. So the genesis of this episode is that I did an episode with Mark Chen from OpenAI about GPT 4.5
1:32.3	and you come into my DMs and you say, listen, I want to give a rebuttal.
1:36.3	Scaling is basically over and it's not exactly what Open AI has said.
	...

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