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Reveal

Is AI Pushing Us Closer to Nuclear Disaster?

Reveal

The Center for Investigative Reporting and PRX

News

4.7218 Ratings

🗓️ 15 April 2026

⏱️ 31 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Earlier this year, Daniel Holz from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists announced that its experts were moving the hands of the Doomsday Clock to 85 seconds before midnight. The hands have been moved only 27 times since the clock’s creation in 1947, and they’re now the closest they’ve pointed to imminent global destruction. On this week’s More To The Story, in an update of an episode that first aired in July 2025, Holz sits down with host Al Letson to talk about the history of the Doomsday Clock, why we’re closer to destruction than ever before, and what we can do to reverse course.

Producer: Josh Sanburn | Editor: Kara McGuirk-Allison | Theme music: Fernando Arruda and Jim Briggs | Copy editor: Nikki Frick | Digital producer: Artis Curiskis | Deputy executive producer: Taki Telonidis | Executive producer: Brett Myers | Executive editor: James West | Host: Al Letson

Listen: Weapons With Minds of Their Own (Reveal)

Learn more: NUKEMAP

Read: Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

Read: Why Iran’s Nuclear Program Is So Essential to Its Identity (The Guardian via Mother Jones)

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The Tuesday clock is now at 85 seconds to midnight, the closest has been in the history of the clock.

0:11.9

Last year, we warned that the world was perilously close to catastrophe and that countries needed to change course towards international cooperation and action on the most critical existential risks.

0:23.6

Unfortunately, the opposite has happened.

0:27.6

The doomsday clock seems like something from science fiction, but it is in fact very real.

0:33.6

Coming up on more to the story, Daniel Holtz from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

0:38.3

explains why global existential threats are moving us closer to midnight. Stay with us.

0:44.3

Stay with us. This is more to the story.

1:00.6

I'm Al Letton.

1:01.7

Earlier this year, the doomsday clock was set to 85 seconds before midnight.

1:06.7

That's the closest it's been to midnight in its more than 75-year history,

1:17.8

raising the alarm about a whole host of existential threats, from climate change and AI to nuclear war.

1:23.7

But University of Chicago, Professor Daniel Hulse says it's not too late to do something about it.

1:29.6

He's the founder of the Existential Risk Laboratory and chair of the Science and Security Board at the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, meaning he's one of the people in charge of

1:35.1

moving the hands of the doomsday clock. I talked to Daniel last summer, and since then,

1:40.0

those hands moved ahead four more seconds, and that was before the U.S. and Israel attacked Iran.

1:46.3

So I wanted to revisit this conversation, especially in light of President Trump's recent threat,

1:52.5

to quote, wipe out a whole civilization in Iran before announcing a tenuous ceasefire last week.

2:01.4

Daniel, how are you this morning?

2:04.3

Doing okay.

2:05.6

You know, that question, I never know quite how to answer it.

2:08.5

Like, locally this morning, it's fine.

2:11.8

Globally, pretty stressed.

...

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