It's saying to the likes of Kier Stama in Deep Trouble himself and others,

if you don't think radically, if you don't take risks, you and the system you seek to defend are toast, you are finished.

It did seem to be a recurring theme that a lot of these case studies had arisen when

nations felt that they were really up against it, you know, that they'd reached a point of

crisis and that this was the catalyst for real action. One of the things that comes out of it

is that they understood that actually young people

today are going to need critical thinking and partly that can be derived from the humanities

as much as they're going to need the capacity to want to a better word code.

Hello and happy Monday morning, everybody.

Happy Monday.

Beautiful weather where we are.

What's the weather like in Berlin, John Kampner?

Good morning, Shun, Good and Morgan to both of you, hair mats.

It was gorgeous on Saturday, shorts and and sunglasses, and yesterday

it was torrential. Oh dear. Oh dear. Sorry to hear that. Great city. John, you are the editor at

lot. What are you? You're contributing editor of the new world yes I am contributing

as I was I was yesterday unless you've given me no no I haven't promoted you just yet but

it's it's always dangling in front of you like a carous but excellent but more importantly

you're the author of a terrific new book brave a new world which we're here to talk about. And it's the work of

three years, isn't it? Of three years traveling and seeing and finding great examples of

nations that have tackled some of the thornyest problems on the planet

and are making headway against the odds really.

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