Iran: is Trump's ultimate target in this war China?
Americano
The Spectator
4.0 • 762 Ratings
🗓️ 7 March 2026
⏱️ 31 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
As the crisis in the Middle East has escalated, Donald Trump's posturing has led many to question his strategy – and if he even has one. Geoffrey Cain, former foreign correspondent, expert on authoritarian regimes – and the author of this week's cover piece in the Spectator, joins Freddy Gray to explain why Trump's ultimate target in the war is China. From the Belt and Road development initiative to more tacit bilateral support, President Xi has been playing a game of chess, to try to check America's power. With Nicolas Maduro arrested and Ayatollah Khamenei assassinated, President Trump is showing his willingness to project American power, at whatever cost – so far. Cain raises questions for those who assume we're moving to a multipolar world.
Produced by Patrick Gibbons and Oscar Edmondson.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | On Tuesday the 24th of March, our speakers will debate the motion, |
| 0:04.0 | this House believes we should abolish the licence fee. |
| 0:07.2 | Spectator Chairman Charles Moore and the telegraphs Alison Pearson |
| 0:10.2 | will propose the motion with Spectator editor Michael Gove |
| 0:13.4 | and former BBC America editor John Sopel opposing. |
| 0:16.8 | I'm Isabel Hardman and I'll be in the chair to maintain decorum and take your pressing questions. |
| 0:22.2 | Join us on Tuesday the 24th of March at 7pm and book your tickets at spectator.com |
| 0:27.7 | forward slash debate. |
| 0:36.3 | Hello and welcome back to the Americana Show. My name is Freddie Gray. I am the deputy editor of the |
| 0:41.9 | spectator and the US editor. And I'm pleased to tell you that this is the 10th year of the |
| 0:48.3 | Americano podcast. And I think it's fair to say it's been a fairly fascinating time in American politics, life and culture. |
| 0:58.1 | And that's what we talk about every episode on this podcast. |
| 1:02.1 | So please keep listening and provide as much feedback as you like. |
| 1:10.6 | Hello and welcome back to the Americano show. Today I am delighted to be joined by Jeffrey |
| 1:16.7 | Kane, who is a great journalist and an author of a new book called Steve Jobs in Exile. He's also |
| 1:24.6 | the author of The Perfect Police State, which is about China. And Jeffrey has written |
| 1:30.6 | our cover piece, which is utterly brilliant, I must say. It's, I don't know why I'm waving |
| 1:35.0 | it around because it's audio only, but I'm waving it around. It's called The Great Game on the cover. |
| 1:39.6 | Trump's ultimate target in this war is China. Now, Jeffrey, I think this is a really interesting point |
| 1:45.9 | to be made to suggest that this war might not be as stupid as a lot of people seem to think |
| 1:51.7 | it is. There actually could be a greater game at foot, and that is to do with the fact that |
| 1:57.5 | Trump is, of course, visiting China on March 31st. Can you explain your |
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