Iran: A Bigger Defeat Than Vietnam? [Preview]
The Socialist Program with Brian Becker
The Socialist Program
4.7 • 587 Ratings
🗓️ 13 May 2026
⏱️ 6 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Robert Kagan, a leading architect of the 2003 Iraq invasion and the wider 'neocon' tendency in Washington, published an article this week titled 'Checkmate in Iran.' On today's show, Brian Becker and Layan Fuleihan discuss the latest headlines and react to this article, of which an excerpt reads:
"The defeats in Vietnam and Afghanistan were costly but did not do lasting damage to America’s overall position in the world, because they were far from the main theaters of global competition. The initial failure in Iraq was mitigated by a shift in strategy that ultimately left Iraq relatively stable and unthreatening to its neighbors and kept the United States dominant in the region.
Defeat in the present confrontation with Iran will be of an entirely different character. It can neither be repaired nor ignored. There will be no return to the status quo ante, no ultimate American triumph that will undo or overcome the harm done. The Strait of Hormuz will not be “open,” as it once was. With control of the strait, Iran emerges as the key player in the region and one of the key players in the world."
This episode was recorded on May 12th 2026.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Robert Kagan, the co-founder of the project for the New American Century and one of the leading architects of the neocon movement that led the United States to the Iraq War in 2003, has just written in the Atlantic magazine that the United States has suffered a total defeat in Iran. |
| 0:21.7 | Yesterday, Donald Trump called Iran's peace proposal stupid and garbage, |
| 0:27.3 | while the Iranians demands compensation for the war |
| 0:30.5 | and recognition of their sovereignty over the Strait of Hormuz. |
| 0:34.4 | Those are the terms of a victor being delivered to a White House that still hasn't admitted what has happened. |
| 0:41.3 | We need a new system. We need a new society. We need to demand that which may have sounded impossible even a few weeks ago, but is not only realizable, but an imperative necessity. I'm Leanne Sime Fulahan, here with Brian Becker, and this is In The News, a segment of the Socialist program, a patron's only episode. |
| 1:25.8 | Before we get started, I want to thank all of our patrons for keeping the show on the air. |
| 1:30.2 | We couldn't do it without your support. |
| 1:32.4 | If you are not yet a patron, you can become one today by going to patreon.com forward slash |
| 1:38.4 | the socialist program. |
| 1:40.3 | We can't do the show without you. |
| 1:41.8 | We can only do it with you. |
| 1:44.4 | Leanne, there's a lot to go through today. In one sense, it's all one story. |
| 1:50.6 | I think Robert Kagan's article is extremely interesting, and I'm glad we're talking about it. |
| 1:57.8 | Kagan is making the point that Iran is the clear winner in the war that was initiated by the |
| 2:05.5 | United States and Israel on February 28th. |
| 2:10.4 | And this conclusion may seem odd to people, especially to people looking at the war, engaging its impact on human beings. |
| 2:21.0 | People in the United States have to pay more at the gas pump, but American cities haven't |
| 2:28.0 | been bombed. Americans haven't died as a consequence of Iran's bombings. all of that kind of suffering by human beings, |
| 2:36.7 | that's been over in Iran. |
| 2:39.3 | The human beings who live in Iran have suffered dearly from this war. |
| 2:44.5 | And that's not the case with the people in the United States. |
... |
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