It's time for Justice Matters podcast. Here's part two of

Glenn's interview with former FBI agent and fellow MS NBC contributor Frank Figliozzi.

Ordinarily we talk about going to the polls.

Everybody's got to get to the polls and I remember when I was a kid hearing the phrase we got to vote the bums out

meaning the politicians who didn't seem to be doing the job we sent them to Washington to do.

One of the challenges becomes voting the bums out in a time when some of the bums

were unwilling to leave office in 2020 after being voted out. Some of the bums are in state

legislatures trying to pass voter suppression laws or

gerrymand and you know gerrymand everything out of free and fair elections and so it

feels like the vote is not the be all and end all.

Now, as a career prosecutor, maybe when you're a hammer,

everything looks like a nail, but I happen

to believe the rule of law is what's most important right now because it can still save us if it asserts itself or more accurately it's asserted by the good men and women of law enforcement the way it was intended to be asserted and applied.

And so with that I want to kind of turn to the pending trials and I really want to get your reaction, your gut take on what Donald Trump is facing in the coming months.

And let's start with the first trial that is set in

Washington DC on March 4th, four counts for trying to overturn the 2020

presidential election results. I know the news is breaking at, you know, breakneck speed

with the Supreme Court perhaps intervening

and that may derail the trial date.

What's your take on the March 4 trial?

So first, I think that Special Counsel Jack Smith is masterfully playing chess

against Trump, who's trying to play hide and seek he's not he's not even in the same game and I think

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