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From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.

Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to the Tangle podcast, the place we get

views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking without all that hysterical

nonsense you find everywhere else. I'm your host, Isaac Saul, and I am thrilled today to have

Stephen Cole on the show. Stephen is a political psychologist who is developing new methods

for giving the public a greater voice

in public policy. He is the director of the program for public consultation and part of the

school of public policy at the University of Maryland. And he is also the founder and president of

Voice of the People, which is how I found him, a nonpartisan organization seeking to give

U.S. citizens a more direct line to

members of Congress and how policy decisions are made. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me. You know, I love giving my guests a chance at the top of shows like this

to just tell us a little bit about how they got into this work. And I think in your case, it's sort of directly related to some of what we're going to talk about today.

So I'd love to hear how Stephen Cole came to be, how you ended up at Voice of the People,

and why you're so passionate about some of this work you're doing right now.

A few decades ago, I was studying public opinion on public policy. And I found that no matter what I talked about, what people

really wanted to talk about was how they felt about government and how dissatisfied they were

with government, how much they didn't trust government and so on. And as I probed deeper into that,

...