On the 23rd of June, following months of increasing tension between the Wagner Group and the Russian

Ministry of Defence, Yvgeny Pugosian launched his rebellion. Pugosian's forces quickly took control

of the headquarters of Russia's southern military district in the city of Rostov-on-Don, after which

an armoured column of Wagner troops advanced

towards Moscow. Ending in a deal apparently brokered by the Belarusian-President Alexander Lukashenko

that would allow Progogian to reside in Belarus, he is now reported to be in either St Petersburg or Moscow.

In today's episode of Interregnum, I asked Richard Seymour about Progosion's background in crime

and his early business ventures, the founding of the Wagner Group in 2014 and the scope of its

operations, and its reputation for appalling violence. And we also talked about why Richard

thinks Progosion can accurately be described as a fascist. Finally, Richard addressed the claim made by some analysts that the abortive rebellion

actually leaves Putin in a stronger position.

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So Richard, we're going to be talking about Yevgeny Pugosian, the leader of the Wagner group and of the abortive rebellion or coup.

And we might talk about how best to characterize what occurred later that he instigated

at the end of June.

So could you say a bit about Pugsian's backstory, his early career in various

forms of criminality and his subsequent business ventures and then his move into the food industry?

All of this, of course, occurred in the chaotic context of the early years of post-Soviet Russia.

...