Internal Family Systems (IFS) and NARM with Richard Schwartz and Laurence Heller
Transforming Trauma
Brad Kammer
4.6 • 141 Ratings
🗓️ 2 September 2020
⏱️ 49 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
"We can safely say that that Self in its undamaged state is in everybody." ~ Dr. Richard Schwartz, Founder of Internal Family Systems
"There's a part of us that always remains undamaged." ~ Dr. Laurence Heller, Founder of NeuroAffective Relational Model
A ground-breaking discussion between Richard Schwartz, PhD, founder of the Internal Family Systems model (IFS) and Laurence Heller, PhD, founder of the NeuroAffective Relational Model (NARM). Pioneers in the mental health and trauma fields, Drs. Schwartz and Heller discuss each other's work and reflect on the intersections of the IFS and NARM models.
While many think of IFS and NARM as being models for trauma, Drs. Schwartz and Heller acknowledge that the similar focus of both IFS and NARM is truly on the Self, that internal place within us all that provides the foundation for our lives despite the complexity of wounding and traumas that one has experienced.
Although aspects of ourselves can become damaged and distorted by trauma, Drs. Schwartz and Heller both agree with a non-Western perspective that the Self "in its undamaged state is in everybody" (Schwartz) and "always remains undamaged." (Heller).
Both IFS and NARM are oriented around supporting the organic process of individuals returning to their authentic selves; in this way, they are also models for healing complex trauma.
Dr. Heller shares with Dr. Schwartz that throughout the years of teaching NARM, many people have remarked on the similarities between the IFS and NARM models. This feedback fueled the intention for bringing Drs. Schwartz onto the Transforming Trauma podcast to give an opportunity for the two to reflect on these important therapeutic models.
There is a feeling of an important coming together as these two pioneers in their field reflect on their 40+ year careers, find common ground and mutual appreciation. At the end of their discussion, Dr. Schwartz shares: "It's great for me to find kindred spirits. There aren't that many of us that think this way."
What might the future hold for IFS and NARM working together for bringing healing to our world?
RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Ron Kurtz / The Hakomi Institute
The Gestalt Institute Of The Rockies
Alexander Lowen / The Alexander Lowen Foundation
Conversations with Alanis Morissette - Episode 9
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The NARM Training Institute provides tools for transforming complex trauma through: in-person and online trainings for mental health care professionals; in-person and online workshops on complex trauma and how it interplays with areas like addiction, parenting, and cultural trauma; an online self-paced learning program, the NARM Inner Circle; and other trauma-informed learning resources.
For the full show notes including references, podcast episodes mentioned, and a quick glossary of terms, visit us at http://www.narmtraining.com/transformingtrauma
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Welcome to the Transforming Trauma Podcast, a complex trauma podcast through the NARM Training Institute. |
| 0:11.0 | My name is Sarah Bueno and I'm so excited to be sharing today's interview with you. |
| 0:17.0 | Hey, Transforming Trauma listeners. Please join us starting in November for our online NARM basics |
| 0:24.2 | training to learn how to transform trauma. This online NARM basics training is available for |
| 0:29.3 | professionals working with clients or populations dealing with complex trauma. Now more than ever before, |
| 0:35.2 | it is essential that we learn how to resolve complex trauma and support post-traumatic growth. |
| 0:40.3 | NARM provides a relational approach to addressing the current COVID pandemic and tools to support healing in the aftermath of this collective trauma. |
| 0:48.3 | If you're looking for more advanced training in complex trauma and are working in mental health, health care, education, substance |
| 0:56.0 | abuse recovery, or allied fields, join us for this level one NARM training to become a |
| 1:01.1 | norm-informed professional. For more information and to apply, please visit www.narmtraining.com |
| 1:08.4 | slash online basics. |
| 1:15.4 | Today's guest on transforming trauma truly needs no introduction, but I'm going to go ahead and introduce him to you anyway. |
| 1:17.5 | Richard or Dick Schwartz began his career as a family therapist and an academic at the |
| 1:22.5 | University of Illinois at Chicago. |
| 1:25.0 | There he discovered that family therapy alone did not achieve full symptom |
| 1:29.0 | relief, and in asking patients why, he learned that they were plagued by what they called |
| 1:33.8 | parts. These patients became his teachers, as they described how their parts formed networks |
| 1:38.6 | of interrelationship that resembled the families he had been working with. He also found that |
| 1:43.5 | as they focused on and thereby separated from their parts, |
| 1:46.7 | they would shift into a state characterized by qualities like curiosity, calm, confidence, and compassion. |
| 1:53.5 | He called that inner essence the self, and was amazed to find it even in severely diagnosed and traumatized patients. |
| 2:00.1 | From these explorations of the |
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