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Hey everybody welcome to season five of angel.

My guest today is Des trainer. You know him because he's been on the

pod many times last time March 2018 episode 8. 07 he gave a great talk to our

accelerator and he has been a real great fan

and supporter of founders for a long time,

his day job as the chief strategy officer

and co-founder of Intercom,

where is really informs, I I think a lot of Des is thinking on

startups because he helps them reach product market fit and helps some covert

customers and listen to customers and really at the end of the day I

...