Hello, I'm Dr. Stephen Hassan with another episode of the influence continuum.

And I have with me, Michelle Dowd, and Michelle, you and I did a podcast together when your

fantastic book, Forager. Field Notes on Surviving a Family Cult first came out.

And a really fascinating book, combining the things you learned in a survivalist cult as a child

with what we can use in the real world.

I thought that was an incredible angle.

And for my listeners who may have not heard that previous interview or not seen you

on other things like Joe Rogan, which we're going to get into in a minute, I just

want to read some of your accolades that you're a journalism professor.

You've contributed to the New York Times, the LA Times, the LA Book Review, Time Magazine,

and a million other national publications.

You were 22 faculty lecturer of the year at Chaffrey College,

where you founded the award-winning literary journal

and creative collective, the Chaffrey Review. You advise student media, you teach poetry and

critical thinking at California Institutions for Men and Women in Chino, where you worked with or you had the

assistance of Manson follower, right? Leslie Van Houghton, who's now out, thankfully, of the Manson

cult. You're a registered yoga teacher. You're just a cool person. I haven't met you yet in person, but I'm a fan.

And I'll just say, you grew up in an apocalyptic cult, Christian-esque cult, with no real

education until you got one. And now you're a professor and a journalism person. And I asked you to come on again because I watched you for three

hours or three and a half hours on Joe Rogan. And I just found the conversation really

interesting. So welcome, Michelle, to the influence continuum for a follow-up.

Thank you, Steve.

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