Hello and welcome to the GZero World podcast.

This is where you can find extended versions of my interviews from public television.

I'm Ian Bremmer, and as the Iran War heats up yet again,

let's not forget another major war that continues in its brutality.

The Ukraine War, Europe's largest since World War II, is now well into its fifth year.

And for much of that time, Vladimir Putin has bet that Russia could simply outlast Ukraine,

that Kiev would eventually run out of soldiers, that Europe would lose its resolve,

and that the United States would lose its interests.

But this summer, that bet looks like it may not pay off for the Russian president.

Ukraine has become increasingly adept at bringing the war deep into Russia itself,

striking military and energy targets far from the front lines,

while keeping pressure on Crimea.

At the same time, NATO has reaffirmed its support for Kiev,

with President Trump recently striking a supportive tone toward Ukraine.

Now, that doesn't mean the war is nearing an end.

In fact, if Putin concludes the time is no longer on his side,

he might look for new, more dangerous ways to raise the stakes.

Joining me today from Kiev is Dmitro Kuleba.

He was Ukraine's foreign minister during the first years of Russia's full-scale invasion.

Here's our conversation.

Thank you. Dmitro Kaleva, thanks for joining us again.

It's my pleasure, Ian.

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