Inside Trump’s DOJ Power Play & the Future of Special Counsels

On with Kara Swisher

New York Magazine

Society & Culture

4.2 • 3.2K Ratings

🗓️ 23 October 2025

⏱️ 65 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

When the Department of Justice has to investigate politically sensitive matters, those investigations are typically handled by outside prosecutors known as Special Counsels: independent investigators given the freedom to unearth the dirtiest dirt against executive branch officials, including the president. Kara speaks with CNN senior legal analyst, former prosecutor, and best-selling author Elie Honig about his latest book, When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ’s Pursuit of the President, from Nixon to Trump. They discuss the history of the DOJ’s independent investigations, the Trump administration’s current (and mostly successful) attempts to weaponize the DOJ, the Supreme Court’s presidential immunity ruling, and recommendations for fixing the system. Want to see Kara and Scott Galloway live during the Pivot Tour November 8th-14th? There are still limited tickets available. Go to PivotTour.com for details. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is like not a PG podcast, right, Kerr?
0:02.9	No.
0:03.2	You're not a PG person.
0:04.7	I've never been a PG person.
0:06.7	It's on.
0:19.8	Hi, everyone, from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm Kara Swisher. The Trump administration has been on an indictment spree recently. So far, there have been cases launched against former FBI director James Comey, New York Attorney General, Etisha James, former National Security Advisor John Bolton, and it's safe to assume there will likely
0:38.2	be more down the road. These indictments are coming directly or indirectly from Trump's
0:42.6	Attorney General Pam Bondi, who has made it clear that she has President Trump's political
0:46.4	enemies in her crosshairs. It's a huge departure from the olden times way back last year when
0:52.1	investigations that could have been perceived as being
0:54.6	politically motivated would have been typically outsourced by the Department of Justice to special
0:59.1	councils, independent investigators, ideally from outside the government, who had the freedom
1:03.9	to unearth the dirt in the executive branch without fear or favor. My guest today, CNN senior
1:10.1	legal analyst and best-selling author,
1:12.0	Ellie Honig, has written all about them in his latest book, when you come at the king
1:16.5	inside DOJ's pursuit of the president from Nixon to Trump. I wanted to talk to Honig about
1:22.6	the special counsel investigations that passed, the impacts they've had, and how they compare
1:26.2	to what's happening in the DOJ
1:27.7	right now. I also want to hear his thoughts on how to fix the system, indeed, if it is fixable
1:33.0	at all. Our expert question comes from a woman whose life was directly impacted by an
1:38.3	independent counsel investigation, anti-bullying activist, author, producer, and now podcaster Monica Lewinsky.
1:45.9	Some special counselors have been national heroes, at least for a while.
	...

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