This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies in for Cherry Gross.

If you're a fan of the movie Office Space as I am, you might remember this moment when Tom

Simkauski, one of the guys working at the digital firm Inatech, comes running up with bad news

for his office mates. I've been looking all over for you guys. Have you seen this? I know it.

I know it. What? It's the staff meeting. So what? So what? We're all screwed. That's what. They're

going to downsize in a check. What are you talking about, Tom? Now, how do you know that? How do I know?

They're bringing in a consultant. That's how I know. It happened at Intercho last year. You have to

interview with this consultant. They call them efficiency experts, but what you're really doing

is interviewing for your own job. Tom, every week you say you're going to lose your job and you're

still here. Not this time. I bet I'm the first one laid off. And Tom, played by Richard really,

would be laid off by the dreaded consultants, of course. Our guests today, New York Times

reporters Walt Bogdani, and Michael Forsyth, have a new book about management consultants that

operate on a, well, much, much larger scale. The book is about McKenzie and company, a firm

that operates in more than 60 countries and employs more than 30,000 people. Bogdani,

and Forsyth write that McKenzie, which has enormous influence on business and public policy,

presents itself as a company that is values driven, caring not just about clients and profit,

but about communities and the world. But their book is full of examples of McKenzie engaging in

ethically questionable work, from helping companies boost tobacco and opioid sales,

to working with repressive authoritarian regimes, including Saudi Arabia and Russia.

And like the consultants in office space, helping many companies downsize, outsource, and

offshore jobs, and reduce employee benefits. Though McKenzie is tight-lipped about its work,

refusing even to disclose its client list, Bogdani and Forsyth managed to get hundreds of

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